Enough municipal bullshit!

[Lolipop]

Fellow Hobbyists,

Licence # recording is harrassment and we should be fighting back. By-laws can be challenged you know.

Sadly, legal by-law battles are expensive and perhaps beyond HFH's means. I'd be willing to chip in $5 a session for a legal fund, if HFH would match it. Maybe we could form an MP coalition where other spas and hobbyists could chip in. The strip clubs did it during the legal Lap Dancing battles.

One of the things I love about massageplanet.net is its empowerment through information sharing. This board could have other functions. We share a community of interest. We should utilize the power of our numbers to fight back, legally!

I'm sick of being pushed around, aren't you?

-Dudenhagen

 

[Super Jesus]

Yup - count me in. I'll send Kayla $5.00 in the mail for the fund if she promises to match everyone.

Timbit

 

[get go]

I wonder if by-law officers have ever considered the possibility that if they close too many Spas they might end on the unemployment line with the MPAs whose jobs they have killed ?

 

[sassy k]

ahh fred,

you can't collect EI, if you don't pay taxes. I assume most of the women at MP's work for 'tips' and and do not get T4's from their place of employment nor do they include their tips on their tax return.

You just can't collect EI...you have to be laid off from (legit job) or wrongfully dismissed.

 

[Nasim]

Those that do declare their income probably do so as independant contractors or their own company and if you are self employed you are not eligible for unemployment.

 

[HappyDiva]

Regardless if they (MPAs) are not working they might have to fall back on some type of gvt benefit. My point was that with so many reported MP closures I wonder if there will be enough MPs for by-law to look after.

 

[maggie]

On the 8th day God created 350 MPs In Toronto.
The number has remained the same since the beginning of time (1988). It can not change.

 

[RATCHET]

Vaughan and Brampton need to have a discussion with the old battle axe in Mississauga by the name of Hazel MacCallion. At least this mayor knows how to handle things.

 

[Mike J]

After reading the thread in the Massage section about the enforcement of the by-law that requires customers to show their i.d., I was quite pissed off.

Obviously, the authorities have no shame about harrassing these businesses out of existence. The implicit message is that "our kind" aren't wanted in society. They can act with impudence, because they know the majority of customers will never be willing to fight back publicly.

This is discrimination of the worst kind, pure and simple. These holier than thou officials represent a repressive and conservative social view that they believe they have the right to enforce.

I don't see how a business of this kind that is discreetly run, and staffed & patronized by consenting adults, is harming anyone. I'm all for action when there's a whiff of "forced labour", or even if some idiot tries to open an mp too close to a school etc. But this kind of blatant persecution and harrassment is wrong. It's all the more infuriating when you consider what else those police and municipal resources could be used for. Maybe we could see access to Toronto swimming pools and playing fields improve, or maybe the police could use an extra man hour to two to catch Holly's killer?

If there were a trusted individual, someone who has earned the respect and patronage of this community, and who was willing to explore the possibility of mounting a legal challenge, I would certainly be ready to make an anonymous donation to support the legal costs. I think many here might also be.

Does Canada not have a version of the ACLU?

 

[chren03]

What is Hazels stance on mps?

 

[Vishal]

Call and ask her

 

[PCTAF]

Dont forget to post a review of the discussion with Hurricane Hazel.

 

[Common Sense]

I wonder if she is a retired tuger!? Old hazel giving the nude reverse!...yummy!

 

[Pompal 09.]

Dudenhagen, LJ:

I did not read this thread or your posts before I posted my opinion on the other thread, "Show your ID..."

I suggested there that the time may have come for hobbyists, service providers and others interested in civil liberties to put our money where our mouths are... and blofeld also suggested he would be willing to contribute and others have offered it, too.

I don't know if I am that "trusted individual" here, but I would certainly be willing to explore setting up an anonymous legal defense fund if there were enough people seriously interested in getting off their asses... and I don't mean getting their asses off!.

It's not only the Town of Vaughan that is bullshitting us, but they lead the charge in repressing sexuality. This could be the place and time for us to "draw lines in the sand."

So, who else is interested? Can we have a show of hands either here or by pm to explore it further?

Perry

 

[Chasity]

OK,

I just spreadsheeted the potential method of coming up with the $$ required for a legal defense.

I used IT as an example - because its my favorite place.

Here is how it breaks down:

IT sched - 8 hour day shift with 5 MPAs and 6 hour night shift with 6 MPAs

This means that there are a maximum of 16 half-hour day sessions and 12 half-hour night sessions. If all patrons paid an extra of $5.00 per visit, we could raise $640.00 per day (max) or $4400.00 per (max). If the MP matched this, it would mean that we could have $8800.00 per week (max) for legal defense from one MP alone.

Now, I'm not sure what the legal rates are (Perry you or other lawyers on this board may be able to provide this) but if we get a few MPs on board with this (like HFH), there is a great potential to defeat this BS bylaw. Just think, if we get 10 MPs participating, we could get upto $88,000.00 per week for legal defense.

What do you think of this plan? If there are enough participants, then the legal defense fund gathering would only have to last a couple of weeks!

Only problem is who would administer this and account for the money?????

With all of the alias' flying around here - who can be trusted?

Let me know if my calculations are totally out the window!!!

That's my $0.02 worth.

Hardman

 

[kurtiobst]

I think this is a great idea! C'mon guys! $5 more per visit only for a few months to ensure anonymity. If we can get the numbers that Hardman indicates (visits per day, number of MPAs, owner matches), that'd be about $105,000 in 3 months.

 

[Ashley]

This is a great idea as long as the temporary surcharge is just that. Temporary. Not an excuse to raise rates in the long term.

But this action would unite MP's and their clients (us) in an effort to bring some sanity to small-time municipal politicians and their thinking.

Count me in for the extra surcharge. As to "who do we trust?", I think sufficient funds could be raised for this legal defence from a few of the respected MP's on this board, HFH, IT, SRM. I trust these operators.

 

[?V??us?]

As Paul from IT mentioned in a separate thread, I think it would be short sighted to defeat the specific by-law being used to harass these businesses.

The problem is that authorities are discriminating against the owners patrons through selective enforcement. I'm not a lawyer, but surely this must be contrary to a higher law? Perhaps a hate law? I don't know. I think the first step would be to find a lawyer who could provide advice on the best legal strategy.

I'm sure the volunteer funding potential in this community is huge, especially if collections could clearly be shown to go towards their intended use.

 

[JUDY 3000]

Lawyer Eddie Greenspan has already wom a similar case as this in Niagara Falls. The govt had to pay punitive damages.

Burlington also was defeated when it tried to get rid of the Solid Gold SC in Burlington. The city spent $6 million and still lost.

 

[Babygirl]

Not that I have the time to conduct this sort of research on the fly, but I know that by-laws can be struck for being unconstitutional, discriminatory or if passed in bad-faith (I think privacy arguments are a dead end). I suspect that tenable legal arguments could be made on each of these points.

I also recall some sort of brief (90-days?) limitation period for seeking to quash municipal by-laws by way of application for judicial review, so we may need to act fast.

I'm also not sure what HFH's relationship is with the municipality, hence any legal challenge may need to be mounted by an alternative entity in the interests of protecting HFH's municipal relationship.

So, how do we harness the financial power of massageplanet.net to get this thing rolling? How about the coalition of concerned hobbists? We need a trustee!

-Dudenhagen