menopause - guidance anyone?

[Goldie6669]

Hello,

my case study is in the early stages of menopause. She's been having a strange cycle and it's been getting stranger since I started treating her. I've not been able to offer her much insight into this from a holisitc perspective, apart from the usual hormones fluctuating etc.

I'm having a hard time knowing what to tell her with regards to the effect of the treatment. Especially since menopause is not a ' condition' as such, bit more of a natural phase in a woman's life. She asked me what it meant when her last period lasted 12 days, and I wasn't sure what to say. Could this have counted as a healing crisis? And if so, could it suggest that her menopause is balancing itself out? How can one define that - since all meonpauses are different. I promised her I'd research this and get back to her on it.

Many thanks,

Loopy

 

[mars28]

I don't personally think that reflexology has much influence on the 'march' of menopause. I went crashing into menopause when I was 45, having had12 months of erratic periods - some lasting almost a month, then I would go for 8 weeks without one and think that was it, then, whallop, along came another one! My last period was June 2000, two months before my 45th birthday. That day I experienced my first hot flush, and I'm still flushing todate! I have reflexology as often as I can, and self-treat - it has never apparently had a direct affect on the symptoms.
As you say, each woman goes through menopause differently - some don't even notice it (lucky b**gers!).

 

[XxXChloeXxX ,paula.. :P]

There is a product in the US, and probably the UK as well,called Estrium. It may be something that could help:

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[Slim Shadez]

I lived in France when I first encountered menopause symptoms - irregular and heavy periods - when I was fifty.

In France there is no concept of 'menopause' = 'illness'. As France appears to be a nation of hypochondriacs - most women I worked with visited a doctor once every four to six weeks with something - if a woman has a discrete symptom, this would be treated as such on one of the regualr visits to the doctor. When I used the term menopause, I got blank stares, I might as well have been using the term adolescence as it were a medical condition.

There are no treatments for adolescence in France and none for menopause. As it happens I didn't need to go to the doctor either and the menopause came and went with far fewer problems than adolescence.

Is menopause a british state of mind?

 

[__ii__]

As a woman in the grips of menopause, let me reply by saying if you were kidding, ha ha. If not, Ouch! That could be interpreted as being condescending as heck. Although I guess it could be the "state of mind" waning hormones wreak on my body that make me a bit raw and sensitive right now. Especially when it is implyed that this is something that is nonexistant since it doesn't get treated in France AND you were lucky enough not to be bothered by it.

Actually that comment sounded akin to the antiquated way of thinking (male) doctors had back in the 19thcenturyas theyblithely treated women for "humours". Or those men who refused to acknowledge there could be possibly something physicallygoing on within women's bodies to cause such misery, as late asthe 20th century... guess what, hormonal imbalance can be a living hell.

By the way -- I'm not British. Apparantly -- who knew -- menopause affects ALL human women.

And a PS is this: I don't think it is considered an "illness" any more than childbearing is. However THANK GOD there are treatments for it and it's symptoms so women who are affected have options.

Would you have your child at home with no one in attendance simply because it isn't an illness? Of course not. Nor should women be made to feel ashamed or like they are complainers if they seek relief for symptoms from menopause. It is as natural as treating anything is natural.

 

[PymnPreeskGen]

[sm=eeeK.gif]

 

[Pompal 09.]

I tried to put forward an alternative point of view. I was hoping for an intelligent counter argument or enlightenment on why, in France, menopause is not viewed as something that is in need of treatment, though the individual symptoms might be. I did not expect a personal attack.

What ever happened to the ability to argue and discuss?

If I am not entitled to voice an opinion, what is this forum for? I haven't made a personal attack on any individual, just asked for some answers or differing points of view. Instead I get an incomprehensible shape and an American who insults me. I find that very rude. I had hoped for better.

 

[ptp]

The incomprehensible shape was a gasp at your comments, and I have nothing but applause for the American Woman's reply.

You were very lucky that you sailed through the menopause and felt that you were able to cope with it without help. Some people take it in their stride, some don't, and a balanced view is what is required. We are all different.

Mine started at 44 years. I tried to get throughit for 6 years before eventually resorting to HRT. I wish I'd done it sooner. All that quality of life lost during that time.

Unfortunately, I didn't try reflexology, otherwise I might have had something more constructive to add to this thread.

 

[IdiomeFed]

Most definitely NO!What a thing to write. []

Menopause is an 'experience', a time of life,which all women go through, but whereas some are lucky and sail through it,many others have severe symptoms which affect their everyday existence. Ask THESE ppl if it is just in their mind and see what reaction you get ............ Mmmn.

Catrin, you are extremely fortunate to have been in the 'lucky' category and have not experienced the terrible symptoms many other women have/had. I am therefore not surprised you have evoked such a strong response from AW, due to a misplaced lack of sensitivity.

PersonallyI have my doubts as to whether reflexology would help someone who is going through the menopause, but I would be interested to know if anyone has examples of success with this.

Best wishes
Moonfairy
x

.

 

[RBS]

---

I insulted YOU? Perhaps it was I and others who were insulted by the way the "differing point of view" was worded? It did not read like an opinion -- it read as an insult. I did state that your "opinion" could be interpreted as such. Also, I felt attacked and condescended to; as though women were being belittled for having menopausal symptoms and seeking medical relief.

If your intentions were to discuss, then let's begin again. Please, forgive my faux pas and I'll forgive yours too. This is the friendliest, nicest website -- really.

I will respond by saying that France is the only country I have ever heard of that has this mindset. I am still shocked, dismayed and I feel sorry for those women who were not as lucky as you. It strikes me as barbaric, wrong, antiquated, outdated thinking.

 

[elphaba]

I really do not understand the replies to my post. What does this mean? I said "I haven't made a personal attack on any individual," and get this response "(just all women who seek relief from menopause...?)"

I asked a question, "Why is the menopause not considered a treatable condition in France?" and get accused of attacking women who seek relief from menopause. There is a non-sequitur here.

Because I am "lucky" not to have experienced the adverse effects of the menopause, I thought that that left me unable to understand much about the issues from personal experience, instead I find that, according to one person, I lack sensitivity. I haven't suffered from cancer, is it then insensitive of me to wonder why Chinese don't suffer from it as Europeans do.

Why are questions not allowed on this forum?

I was hoping someone might give some evidence supporting a statement such as "Dietary and lifestyle differences between French and UK (or American) women might be a contributory factor to why they don't have a concept of menopausal problems." I know a form of oestrogen is made in body fat, but this would seem to indicate that most french women might need oestogen replacement and most british women would need less of it. I wondered if anyone knew if this might be so.

I do know that if a french woman goes to the doctor with depression, which may be a symptom of menopause elsewhere, that symptom will be treated. Hormone patches are dispensed, after a series of blood tests, for hot flushes, but again it is the syptom that is treated not the 'condition'.

I know that research has found that, on an average, Japanese women suffer less from menopause, because of a high soya diet. Other research shows that a balanced intake of food rich in vitamins, minerals and calcium combined with regular exercise is the best way to keep most of the problems associated with menopause at bay.

Spinal bone mineral density decreases with age, but 75% of the loss occurs within the ten years after menopause. Spinal bone mineral density in the French population is 5-10% lower than US values. Does this imply that US population have a diet that prevents this and is therefore beneficial to pre-menopausal women.

I had hoped to add to that knowledge here, however, it seems there is little to expect other than rude and personal remarks because I am post-menopausal and dare to ask questions.

 

[massage_junkett]

Hi catrin



I don't see this in your post. Obviously your posting is not coming across as you had intended it to.Just words can do this sometimes.


IMO your posting came across as belittling or even dismissive of ppl who do have menopausal problems. It also came across to me that youwere posting that the French don't have such problemsand are implying that it is figment of the imaginationof the British. And personally I didn't like that.

Now I can see what you had in mind.

Anyway, let's not make a big argument out of this. It is a nice friendly forum. Let's take it that your posting wasn't intended as how it came across. [sm=grouphug.gif]

Best wishes
Moonfairy
x

 

[gloria]

Catrin,
No one said questions weren't allowed. Initially you didn't ask the question you say you were askingwhich was: I asked a question, "Why is the menopause not considered a treatable condition in France?" If you'd simply asked those questions you put into your last post, they would've been answered. What put people off was that you made statements which as I said, could be interpreted as insulting, and they were interpreted as just that. I won't go into that again.

Like I tried to say before in apology, if you didn't mean any offense forgive me for misinterpreting your remarks. It sounded different than it came off, like Moonfairy was explaining.

I mean if you'd just asked "Hey -- do you think menopause is affected by cultural ways of thinking or dietary norms"... do you think we'dhave beenall riled up here? I don't. I asked my husband if he read your post as I did, he said "maybe she just doesn't know anybody who has gone through this and is asking". Ahhh men.

In answer to the questions now on the table, yes I do think diet affects menopause. I think genetics play the largest role in how we will experience our "mean old pause", exercise habits play a role too... I also think we get a lot of "bad" estrogens from plastics and environmental sources here in the US and I would imagine, other large industrializednations. The stress levels we live under also greatly affect how our hormones are released, metabolized, absorbed or excreted.

These factors throwan already struggling endocrine system into failure -- we are left with severely out of balance hormones. Not just the sex hormones either. BTW, I do not have any supporting evidence or studies for you to look at to put in at this point, I've only read extensively and seen films on this.

As an aside: Do you know that depressioncan bea symptom of one's hormones being out of whack? So the people who are being treated with anti-depressants aren't necessarily being treated for the right thing. The anti-depressants won't fix what needs fixing at all... but they'll keep "her" quiet and placated, won't they!?!

Ihave been in the process of having comprehensive testing for my own woes, which has shown that my adrenals are exhausted, hormones are either all too high or too lowand I am "catabolic" -- some of the results I was speaking of. Not to mention beingin menopause with the beginnings of osteoperosis. I don't mind the hot flashes, the weight gain, and other symptoms -- the headaches, however,are too much to function through though. HRT at the absolute lowest level has helped, EFT has too. I don't think I have an illness,I have imbalances. I doknow thatI can reverse the effects of multiple influences and make the natural processes of menopause or whatever, manageable.

Actually I don't believe the collective "we" thinks menopause is an illness.

If France did not consider menopause a treatable condition, they wouldn't be treating it... as you've now gone on to explain it, they do give out patches for HRT so isn't that treating it? I guess I'm confused. In all countries, to my knowledge, the symptoms are treated -- no one is trying to "cure" menopause. So I guess what I'm saying is the premise of the initial thought is faulty.

Ihope this has answered your questions, offered food for thought and encouraged you to feel better, I don't believe any of us want to make someone feel bad or hurt them.

 

[cnzbpjbf]

I replied to the OP with no personal comments about any one else's post as I had only skimmed them in order to note that I would not be repeating what anyone else had said. I made one personal statement about myself, as my lack of experiences were IMO relevant to my reply.

I followed this by a paragraph of facts of the experience of the menopause in France. I did not know when I started to experience the menopause, that is would be very straight forward, so was naturally curious to gain knowledge from my colleagues and friends about what might happen and how it would be treated. The responses I received, I summarised in the sentence, "I might as well have been using the term adolescence ... ."

The third and pen-ultimate paragraph had one factual sentence and one comment about my experiences. I then asked, what I thought was, a succinct question to enquire if there were cultural perspectives that effected our expectations and experiences.

It is only after three people make personal comments and rude remarks about my opinion, that one person actually gives their opinion and facts about the different approaches to treatment.

AW then adds

What happens is that, in general, the French will visit the doctor every couple of months whether they need to or not - the rationale is that they are paying in their taxes for the service and they want their money's worth - there are no 'general practitioners' you go to a 'specialist' every time. If you have a urinary complaint you go to a urinary doctor, if you have a sore throat you go to the ENT doctor. No one where I lived, in Cannes, knew of a 'menopause' doctor. You would go to one who specialises in circulatory problems for hot flushes or a doctor who deals with neuroses for depression. Blood tests would be used to determine if you needed hormone treatment for the 'circulatory problem' and counselling on diet and lifestyle may be prescribed for the neurosis.

I don't suppose any of this helps the original poster, but I thought a different cultural perspective was worth mentioning. AW's husband was spot on, as I have mentioned already, in assessing my experiences and the information AW eventually provided was useful to me too.

I used to work for the UN and had to understand that in diffferent cultures from one's own, statements of fact should be taken as what they are, objective comment, and not be viewed as an attack on one's own lifestyle or opinion. I hope this helps people understand my posts here.

 

[MissNewmarketSalsa]

Wow..................ooks like I really did open a can of worms here!!

As interesting as this discussion is becoming, I wonder if anyone would mind going back to my original plea for help and seeing if they can be of some support.....? !

I'm seeing my case study again today and don;t feel any further forward with the treatment plan.

So, if there are any refelxologists out there that can offer some guidance I'd really be grateful.

Thanks and blessings,

Loopy x

 

[my own pavement]

"There's a worm at the bottom of my garden, and his name is Wiggly Woo"......

Not sure you really can explain the ongoing changes in this particular client. I have used reflexology on people for many years, and self-treated throughout my 'menopause' (I wish it would bloomin well 'menostop'!) but have not noticed any changes. Most people just tell me that after a session they feel more relaxed - but it has never altered the symptoms - not sure this is particularly helpful to you.

Over the past 6 years I have tried all sorts - cut things out of my diet, put things back in, increased this, decreased that, taken supplements/drinks/tinctures blah blah blah. See a homeopath regularly, also a medical herbalist. Started on a supplement based on mung beans about 3 weeks ago, and have to admit that there has been an alteration in severity of hot flushes. I mentioned in my original post that over the course of a year, my periods changed sequence then stopped completely - I was 45. I am not eligible for HRT having had breast cancer 5 years ago.

My mother, grandmother and 4 aunts suffered similar symptoms. My paternal grandmother was put into a mental hospital in 1959 due to her 'irrational' behaviour. She endured many years of visits to the same institution for lobotomies! My father now thinks that it was my grandfathers way of treating her menopause!! Whenever I throw the duvet on the floor in the middle of the night, I have an inkling that my husband is considering the same treatment for me.............

 

[Serenity]

Hi Jabba,

that post of yours has really made me giggle - although I'm definately not giggling at your experiences, but rather your sense of humour about it all.

I really feel for you and also really appreciate the time you've taken to give me this feedback. I'm starting to see that stress reduction and relaxationis really one of the best side effects of treatment for all my clients. And if stress levels can be lowered then it stands to reason that so many of the other undesirable symptoms of menopause can also be aleviated somewhat. It's the lifestyle changes that I feel make the lasting difference in the end. But this particular client is a bit closed to any new ideas in that way. I'm working on it though, and will keep on going. The mung beans sounds good - I'll pass it on. Thanks.

I imagine menopause to be perhaps the biggest test of spiritual endurance as a woman. In so many respects it must be a huge challenge to remain focused on the day, the moment, the second, when you've entered such an open ended process.

I'm almost 35 and not yet had any children. It's becoming a subject very close to my heart, because I know that in terms of years I'll be there before I know it. And I've not even entered into motherhood yet!

I admire your strength and also all the otherwomen out there who keep hold of their grace, goodness and laughter throughout all the perils of femininity.

And please give my regards to Wiggly Woo.....

Loopy x

 

[John Conrad]

It could be that reflexology alongside Bach flower remedies could be a route you could explore. They are very effective at balancing emotions.

Footsie