My 6 year involvement with HIV treatment / 7 year visits to Patong

[BShimwoman]

Djaust i think you have arguing your point well with HIV with livinlos. Djaust i think you win this debate!

 

[dkomarovska]

I am fairly new to these forums in terms of voicing my opinion but i do read them on a regular basis, however i think you need to give eurogirl a break - after all she is only spending time offering her advice about HIV strains, for the benefit of the people who visit these forums.

I have been connected with the treatment of HIV for the past 6 years and have been going to Phuket for about the last 7. I, like all of you have had significant experience around the bars of patong so i may be more qualified than most to discuss this topic.

First of all, i have read a number of discussion threads that hover around the HIV / STI issue, but most of you seem either naive or (sadly) ignorant - you simply want to discuss the things you enjoy or dont offer a threat to your pleasures - which is understandable. However your decisions in life should be based on the things you know, rather than what you dont.

It is upto you to determine whether the benefits of unprotected sex out weigh the risks that are involved. I cant begin to tell you how devastating this horrendous virus is - but it's your decision nevertheless. HIV types, groups and sub-types have a place in this thread but they are not what i want to talk about. instead read:

http://www.avert.org/hivtypes.htm

In a nutshell:
The biggest problem with HIV is the way that it operates when inside the body. There are sub-sets of cells in the body that manage the immune system and oversee the production of cells - guess which part HIV targets? Unfortunately, when the virus is working in the body, it changes between cells and takes on a new form - and this is why there is such a problem in finding a vaccine or a cure for the virus. It is only possible to slow down the process at which it occurs using drugs (at strict times) and taking care of yourself, eating sensibly, exercise, not drinking too much, etc, etc - these are key in the success of any drug treatment. Effectively, for anybody who has HIV present in their body, their body will contain millions of different virus' which are collectively referred to as HIV. Now interestingly, HIV constantly changes within the body and when the virus is passed onto somebody else, that person takes on the form of the virus at the point that it was passed on. Most of you will probably know that HIV is not what kills you - either AIDS does or one or many opportunistic infections that are caused by HIV such as Karposi's Sarcoma (Cancer), Hepatitis, Herpes, Thrush, Crypticoccal Meningitis, Malabsorption, Molluscum Coneforum.xxxiosum (like smallpox), toxoplasmosis (brain disease) amongst many others. Take a look:

http://www.avert.org/aidscare.htm

So, for all of you that think that drugs can keep you alive and well for 20-25 years, consider that the person who had the virus had not been taking their drug therapies properly when they should have been. Consequently they have built up resistance to that particular therapy program which potentially puts you at a disadvaneforum.xxxe when you come to receive treatment. This is the reason why the drugs that are available on the market currently, will not work in the future. There has not been a major break-through in HIV drug therapy for over 10 years - drug companies have been tweaking their drugs and combining them in order to get better results since then, and there is very little in the pipeline. One of the leading HIV pharma companies has just had a 'new type of technology' rejected by the fda. Therefore we are still using the likes of AZT, FTC, 3TC ddl, TDF that are considered to be old in todays scheme of things. Worried - you should be!

Finally, if you have read all the information i have given you and still decide that you cant be ars*d using a condom when your on your way back to a hotel room with your conquest for the night - spare a thought for the
girl, who in actual fact, YOU maybe infecting. Thailand now has the fastest growing HIV community in the world - its time people took responsibility for their actions!

If you want some more info on HIV / Aids www.aidsmap.com, www.avert.org are highly respected within the industry. Below are some peoples personal stories:

http://www.avert.org/womstory.htm
http://www.avert.org/manstory.htm

 

[sixxy]

Yes, what do you have against the comparaison between a Motorbike -accident and HIV.?

The motorbike -accident, have more chances to kill you rapidely!

Look, you intentions are surely well intentioned! But they are stupid.
Hiv/aids, is not a disease nobody knows about. I think that everything must be done, to put ALWAYS a rubber on! But I do not go to moralize people on this board. I think that it is completly insane not to use them. but why keeping moralising like this! Everybody going with a wh*re knows the risk!
I did it deliberate without a condom once, and believe me I regret it. HIV is negative, but I was on my first solo-trip and after a few days I took the wrong decission. Never again!

I am even scared, and willing to admit it, that even being very prudent know, that still I can catch this arwful disease. Sometimes girls ask me to do oral. Well i try to avoid that! Chances to find death are less then taking a bike! Yes! But I would never forgive myself to give it to somebody close to me!

WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! That's why you are not serving us with your remarks towards HIV. We know the risk, it is the downside of having interactions with BG's. Morelising will not help. This has been discussed many, many times on this board, and I am fed up with it.

Everything has been said about it, just tell me know where to find this cuttie in Los!:blah:

 

[Jourdan]

:thumbsdow

 

[Suzanne L]

Quote from the 'avert' website

The area in Africa south of the Sahara desert, Sub-Saharan Africa, is by far the worst-affected in the world by the AIDS epidemic. The region has just over 10% of the world's population, but is home to over 60% of all people living with HIV. An estimated 3.1 million adults and children became infected with HIV during the year 2004. This brought the total number of people living with HIV/AIDS in the region to 25.4 million by the end of the year

Please, Phoenix, don't come here and preach, and don't bullsh1t. I agree with your message but take great exception to you assuming that we will fall for that old 'Thailand has blah blah blah' crap. You might be able to prove your facts correct but I doubt it, and so does your own website.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you may or may not be entitled to the moral high ground, but you are certainly not entitled to come here and twist facts or statistics to suit your personal agenda.

If you have something to say then feel free, but if you wish to dress up your opinion as 'fact' then you need some substance to it or I, and I suspect many others, will point it up for the pious opinionated bollox that it is. Or maybe I am wrong?

 

[Gym Jock]

Yes maybe, I did the calc in my head. Sorry.

Since it was completely hypothetical and in response to a question of infection numbers vs infection rates, and both figures were arrived using the same method, it actually doesn't matter because (a) the figures are not real and (b), the comparison for the purposes of illustration can be compared. But yes, the maths are probably wrong.

 

[Gayle]

2004

Country Situation Analysis


Thailand has demonstrated the success possible in addressing HIV and AIDS when a well-resourced and politically-supported response to the AIDS epidemic is coupled with a broad partnership of public, private and civil society actors using innovative, practical interventions to address HIV risks and vulnerabilities. As the Thai HIV epidemic matures, the future challenge for all partners in Thailand will be to continue to develop appropriate, innovative responses.

 

[Dani73]

As always, it`s up to you but the wisest course with motorbikes, bar girls - wear a helmet. It`s that simple. or am i missing something?

 

[TONY S]

Nope, not missing anything, it really is that simple

 

[Los Rojiblancos]

Country HIV and AIDS estimates, end 2003

Adult (15-49)

HIV prevalence rate

 

[jamai]

This will hopefully be my last response to this post, as I think I've made my points clearly enough.

To the BMs who feel they're being patronised, please don't feel that way. Just maybe the posts made by some aren't being directed at people such as you with some experience of LOS and BGs.

All you have to do is pretend that the comments are being directed at some of the newbies to LOS who also frequent these forums. Read some of the threads such as "Where do I buy a phone card?" or "Do they have internet?" etc. There are people who have not been to LOS before, or have limited experience. Surely it's neither a crime nor patronising to put the warning out to them.

On my first trip in January I had unprotected sex... (TWICE!!!) with two different girls, whilst drunk. The three month wait until I had the test was one of the longest three month periods of my life. Fortunately I was all good and didn't even have clamydia, Hep A, B or C or any of the other nasties that it's possible to get, yes, anywhere in the world, but probably more likely in a known sex toursim region.

If the message about being careful can be read and burned on the brain of a newbie to LOS then the slings and arrows that have been thrown by some will have been worth it.

It really isn't a patronising message at all, although I can see some more experienced people seeing it that way. What it is is kind-hearted people trying to look after friends they haven't even met. We're all here and reading these forums because we love the place and we just want to make sure that someone's visit to the greatest place on earth doesn't end in a death sentence.

DJ Dave ..... over and hopefully out.

 

[Annabell C.]

Does it really matter what the infection rates are, and who really knows what they are anyway. The reality of the situation is that if you partake in the game bareback you are running the risk. Your decision and no one elses.

 

[Don T]

You were not being preached to specifically nor having your intelligence questioned. Not by me at least. I never used statistics to try to prove a point, nor twisted them to suit my argument. I used what I have heard to be commonly accepted or reported rates of infection of approximately 1 in 30 to 1 in 50. In any case, it doesn't matter as far as my point is concerned whether this was 1 in 2 or 1 in 2,000.

To use another example here. Someone posts a warning that he/she has read somewhere that terrorists are planning to attack a western target in Thailand. You, as an expert in the LOS thinks the warning is hysterical and overstated. Do you (a) tell the well-meaning person to shove their comments where a monkey puts it's peanuts, or (b), thank them for their interest in other people's safety but politely point out that whilst this might sell newspapers, it's unlikely to happen because the police have a very strong prescence and security is very tight.

Sorry, what was your point again? :what:

 

[enroute]

Geez there are some people around here who are in total denial about the risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. The fact that sub-Saharan Africa PRESENTLY have the highest number of infected people in the world DOES NOT preclude Thailand from having the fastest growing rate of infection in the world.

The bottom line for me is:

1. HIV exists and is proven to be transmitted by sexual contact
2. Thailand is a destination for sex tourism and sexual contact between multiple partners will happen more frequently
3. Contact rates are about 1 in 30 to 1 in 50

That says to me that if you have sex with 50 partners without some protection then you are statistically likely to become infected. The trouble is it could be the first partner or the fiftieth. How would you know?

I've been to plenty of the bars around Patong and seen the "quality" of some of the girls and customers. I've also been suckered twice whilst drunk into having sex with a girl without a condom and know how easy this can happen. When I think that my old boy could have shared juices with some of the other customers around the place I shudder.

Thanks to Pheonix and eurogirlinthai for the information. Twist it and manipulate it all you like, I'd rather die many other ways than from my d*ck dropping off.

 

[massage_junkett]

One of the greatest minds of the 19th century once said:

There are 3 kinds of lies:

1) Lies (ordinary lies)

2) Damn lies (really, nasty, outrageous lies)

3) Statistics ( the most nefarious of all)

Comments in parentheses were added by me.

 

[PAULINE A]

Considering you guys have kissed and made up, I'll stop too.

 

[lolaleigh]

so--it,s best to use a condom then ?

 

[Ryan B]

Well you have 300-odd posts and must be quite an expert on LOS so maybe the initial post wasn't directed at someone with all your experience.

That is one of life's little travails when you know plenty about a subject. Sometimes comments from well meaning people can seem trite or patronising. It's a sign of maturity to not be too upset by these occurrences.

For what it's worth mate, I'll put out the olive branch by saying "whatever you do, please be careless".

 

[I Need Coffee]

Its less denial and more accurate reporting of the facts as they stand.. How do you not see data like 'an estimated 3.1 million people became infected' in sub saharan africa in one year and then say that Thailand still has the fastest growing infection rate ???

Also whats never mentioned is that female to male transmission ratios are much much lower than the other way around.. I know an old expat who has beeen here all through the late 80's till now when Thailand was having a massive infection spike.. He never has used them and estimated (without boasting) at least 800 or more girls.. Infection free and so what are the odds.. Thinking about it I have known or heard of a fair few women infected (both in Europe and in thailand) and have yet to meet or hear of any infected guys, that even includes husbands and long term partners of those infected women..

I always wear rubbers for sex with strangers mostly to protect my girl.. Personally I am a bit of a fatalist and death doesnt actually concern me much.. Either way just use a rubber and your safe.. Not really an issue then is it..

 

[maisie]

BTW if anyone ever feels the need to donate or has a venture looking for charity and support.. Father Giovani at the Camillion center in Pattaya is providing an amazing service for HIV infected children and HIV orphans as well as girls in the later seforum.xxxes of illness, plus a whole support network for medicines, hospice care, even getting cremations and Bhuddist services was initially difficult..

A real working saint so I am told..