Off Topic v.2

[Albertaman]

Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, founded 1976, fair value assets at $CAD 17.6B ($USD 13.1B) at end of 2018. Alberta population 4.3M people.

Norway Oil Fund (Government Pension Fund Global), first funds in -1996, valued at $USD 1,000B+ in 2017. Norway population ~5.25M people. Essentially, this fund has assets of more than $1USD 190,000 per each and every citizen of Norway. Now the fund is divesting its investments in petroleum companies. It is broadly invested across the globe in over 9000 companies. Norway has intelligently built up its future on petroleum products while investing its future on the success of the rest of the world in diversified industries. This holds a clue. They kept making petroleum dollars while investing globally, not just trying to diversify their local economy.

In Alberta, our first major call for diversification was in the 1980's. There have been some newer high tech companies that have developed since, but not in numbers that would suggest a critical mass of new industries. Even across Canada, cities like Toronto that talk a mean talk about "high technology, AI etc" have only developed a few hundred thousand jobs that would be classified as well paying, leading edge. Essentially, most of the jobs in Toronto are 'Service Industry' jobs, and jobs tied to banking, finance, and traditional legacy Canadian businesses. Quebec has been a bit bolder, politically supported by monies transferred from other provinces, but there are no signs of a business success revolution, with the same old Bombardier type handout, and 'save the jobs' story repeated.

The major theme across Canada for past 15 years has been the creation of a housing bubble, where most Canadian, and Albertan households confused the rising value of their homes with the idea that now they had more assets, thereby borrowing even more liberally using tools like HELOCs. This housing bubble was further fueled by Chinese monies stolen from the people of China, and laundered into countries like Canada (and Australia, New Zealand, US etc). This money laundering was fully supported by all of our major Canadian banks, as it helped drive up home costs, and therefore their mortgage loan books surged, as Canadian buyers competed believing that this price escalation would go on for ever. The problem is that most Canadians and Albertans dug deeper into their savings and loans to compete in this house buying contest, monies that they had earned through regular hard work. They did not realize that they were competing against stolen funds. Why else does your bank's ATM pop up with Mandarin characters? Even worse than the fact that everyone paid too much for their homes, they also lost their abilities to save for the future, and invest in global stocks (in industries different from the ones that we work in, in our province and in our country). Mass belief became that one's home was an investment, fully supported by the banks and the Real Estate industry that took away the people's future. And by the way, another myth was that this is only happening in Vancouver and Toronto. Not true. Proportionally it happened at an even larger scale in Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, Regina, Saskatoon...and so forth. The next 5 years will reveal the truths, as that source of stolen funds dries up (China is finally clamping down on that outflow of funds stolen by their top comrades). Bubbles are like ponzi games... they need fresh inflow to maintain that bubble. The only beneficiaries would be the ones who sold their homes in the past few years, and did not get back in this market.

And our Alberta governments have also failed to help the province invest in the future, unlike the Norwegian government. And I agree with BigBill that there is a time for governments to spend. But I also believe that when governments and people/household fail to save, they have nothing left to invest and help them diversify. Just as the Heritage fund is a pittance, many Albertans have squandered their personal wealth on high living during the good times - do we really need those large homes, and big trucks and toys for personal daily living and use? A nice portfolio of stocks covering many industries, and countries, including emerging economies would be more productive. And one can buy just about every kind of Global company shares on US markets, with a simple trading account, and using one's phone.

Like many of you, I am a proud Albertan. I also think that there is absolutely no benefit in people investing mental energies on denying climate change science. However, I think the path forward is to absolutely use the resources that we are blessed with, and use technology to do so in the most efficient and most responsible way that we can. We cannot just talk about diversification and start from an empty tank. The US had oil production at 5M barrels per day in 2008. This past February, they are at 12.3M bpd, and export has risen to 3M bpd. Simply awesome. No wonder lots of American funding has found its way to discredit Canadian oil. We now need to help ourselves. Foreign investments will not be showing up. Albertans have always been more American-like in our thinking and in our abilities to take action. When things get tough, the tough get going. I believe this. This is not the time to succumb to silly mass hysteria thinking. Petroleum products demand is not exactly collapsing for many decades yet. In emerging economies, energy is what helps people climb out of poverty. Let's stop pretending that renewable energies will supply their demands in the next 30 years. And yes, coal has to go, unless innovations such as coal gasification take over. Btw, for someone who drives a Tesla in the American midwest, or for that matter, just about anywhere in China, guess what, they drive a coal fueled vehicle. Where do you think the electricity comes from? And for those interested, check out the information on solar cell manufacturing and toxic effluents that are destroying rivers and lakes, or the total misuse of the environment from vehicle battery manufacturers, and suppliers of various metals that go into the process. There is no panacea that cures all.

Natural gas replacing coal, globally is one of the most significant steps in cleaning up our human act. Actually, the most significant beneficial contribution to the planet would be if every human household on the planet had one less child in the future. A lot easier said than done.

In summary:
As Albertans, we have to get fully engaged. We are all advocates of our principal industries. We do not have to act meek. Let's stay focused and seek out new markets. yes, even without pipelines, our bitumen can be moved out. We need to directly engage with other world markets, India, China. We have to act as a nation rather than a province. We have to spend smart. We cannot fritter away our personal funds, nor public funds. And we have to save, so we can invest indirectly through public stock markets - this is how we diversify, individually, and as a nation-province. And zero tolerance for money launderers and other external forces that are taking the money away from our families' well being. We can't live any longer on cruise control and just watching hockey. Speak up, engage in politics at any level, be a voice for positive change in your own region, or field of work. Cheers.

No offense is intended to anyone in my rant, and I strongly agree with all of the above posters, but I have been surprised at how passive many of my fellow Albertans have been in recent years.

 

[ChaosFactor]

This place was my escape from politics as it does nothing but divide, but as it came up I am going to respond and then hopefully this topic dies a quick death.

Those who think oil is a dying industry are wrong! The world has grown from 1 billion in the 1800's to over 6 billion now and growing at an exponential rate and what does humanity need to survive? Food, water, heating, shelter, vehicles, medicine, clothes, etc,etc and all these depend on oil so it is a very much growing industry.
Green alternatives will also never replace oil and coal as they are too expensive and unreliable and if you want proof look no further than Germany to see the pitfalls associated with the technology.
The oil industry in Alberta is being hindered strictly through groups that have a vested interest in supporting oil industries in other countries and the enviro warriors are nothing but mindless drones who do not see the hypocrisy of their actions while they protest cleaner oil options here in Canada while other countries with worse environmental records expand their operations. If you want to go to clean options for energy then nuclear is the best way to go and this was slandered years ago to appear unsafe which in reality it is not. There is a concerted effort to spread false information such as catastrophic climate change!
The concept BigBill stated that govts need to spend beyond their revenue to help the masses is so incorrect it is scary! This is like saying I bring in $10,000 a month but I know I will get a raise every year so will spend $15,000 through credit because then I can buy the things (I think) I need now and as my pay goes up I can pay back the bills.
Anyone with any sense can see how failed this concept is! By the time you are earning enough to cover your existing costs you will be so deep in debt that the interest alone will take up any extra money you now earn. When the govts are so deep in debt the interest payments are in the billions each month and this is money that is being diverted from actual services.
I have family and friends in several areas and levels of govt and trust me it is a spending issue not a revenue issue and improper allocation of funds and these are things that bother many people in the public sector but unfortunately many departments are run by people who do not care.
What Kenney needs to do is what he is doing, he needs to fight back against the misinformation campaign, he needs to go speak to the real people in power in the U.S. and he needs to hope Trudeau is gone in October!
If Trump had been in charge when Harper was PM this would be a golden age for the Alberta oil industry and once we get rid of Trudeau it still can be.
If Trudeau is reelected then we should seriously speak to our neighbours (especially BC as they are our biggest trading partner and vice versa) and look at forming a western Canadian block (as much as I hate to say it) even if that means separating from the rest of Canada.

 

[Old Fart]

We have to spend smart. We cannot fritter away our personal funds, nor public funds. And we have to save, so we can invest indirectly through public stock markets

Agreed, but, unfortunately, most people do not know the meaning of the word 'save'. In fact, they do the opposite. They not only spend everything they make, they go out and get credit cards, loans etc. Bank are making out of this world profits and personal bankruptcies seems to go up every year. If our interest rates ever go up...

 

[ChaosFactor]

Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, founded 1976, fair value assets at $CAD 17.6B ($USD 13.1B) at end of 2018. Alberta population 4.3M people.

Norway Oil Fund (Government Pension Fund Global), first funds in -1996, valued at $USD 1,000B+ in 2017. Norway population ~5.25M people. Essentially, this fund has assets of more than $1USD 190,000 per each and every citizen of Norway. Now the fund is divesting its investments in petroleum companies. It is broadly invested across the globe in over 9000 companies. Norway has intelligently built up its future on petroleum products while investing its future on the success of the rest of the world in diversified industries. This holds a clue. They kept making petroleum dollars while investing globally, not just trying to diversify their local economy.

The thing we need to remember when we compare the Heritage Fund to Norway is that Norway is a country and thus has 100% say over the funds produced. If Alberta had been a country and not a province we would have the additional billions that we have paid into the federal coffers and that dramatically changes the amount of money in our account and the standard of life right here.

 

[luckydog]

Getting rid of the Carbon Tax means a bigger deficit for Alberta while we end up paying the Federal Carbon Tax - so that money leaves the province. Don't believe Alberta will win the legal battle about the carbon tax.

Reducing corporate taxes will benefit shareholders and companies will use the extra money to buyback shares. In the past, reductions of coporate tax have not led to m ore jobs. Corporate tax reductions benefit the wealthy, not the average person. History has shown this over and over again. AND Alberta's deficit will grow.

But the UCPs will cut wages to health workers, school teachers, cut back on programming for kids and the poor and mentally ill - all so Kenney can put more cash into the pockets on the one percent.

This is what the PCs did. Kenney is no better.

The UCP motto about Alberta being open for business is crap - we have always been open for business

But hey, we can drink legally in provincial parks and now walk around festivals holding our beer. Yahoo.

 

[ChaosFactor]

Getting rid of the Carbon Tax means a bigger deficit for Alberta while we end up paying the Federal Carbon Tax - so that money leaves the province. Don't believe Alberta will win the legal battle about the carbon tax.

Reducing corporate taxes will benefit shareholders and companies will use the extra money to buyback shares. In the past, reductions of coporate tax have not led to m ore jobs. Corporate tax reductions benefit the wealthy, not the average person. History has shown this over and over again. AND Alberta's deficit will grow.

But the UCPs will cut wages to health workers, school teachers, cut back on programming for kids and the poor and mentally ill - all so Kenney can put more cash into the pockets on the one percent.

This is what the PCs did. Kenney is no better.

The UCP motto about Alberta being open for business is crap - we have always been open for business

But hey, we can drink legally in provincial parks and now walk around festivals holding our beer. Yahoo.

The Carbon Tax is a scam and needs to go provincially and then federally. Does anyone know where all that money goes to help the environment? Shouldn't it be invested into Alberta oil and gas to better improve technology?
BC's carbon tax eventually went into general revenues and that is what will happen everywhere unless we fight back.
I have seen this argument that big businesses are the only ones who benefit but we need to look at the hierarchy of business to see this is false.
- Tax credit or rate is offered to business who takes advantage
- Business takes risk by investing in opening
- Business hires people to work
- Workers get paid and spend their money at other businesses
- Workers pay taxes that allow govt services to be offered
- Company sells shares that people invest in for their RRSP's

There is more positives but I think this makes the point that it's not the 100%. If people want to take advantage of the rebates then take the risk and invest in your own business.
The biggest fallacy out there is that money is evil as are the 1% because they own it. Money is a tool no different than a hammer and some people are better at using that tool.
No offense to you LD but people have been trained to be workers from a young age and not take risks. How many on here heard from a young age "go to school and get a good job" instead of "go create your dream"?
I have no hate for those who have the courage to create a successful business

 

[EnjoyingLife]

Exxon has internal documents from the 1970s predicting rising carbon emissions would be detrimental. These are facts, and ignoring them is foolhardy. The world is coming around to seeing this as the real and severe issue it is and if we don't get on board, we're left long behind.

Climate change or global warming is very complicated. In the end, from what i've read quickly, some people just believe in the kool aid.

I believe climate change is a natural occurring event, and if you ignore this fact, you should maybe do some self reflection. I cannot comment on whether we are speeding the process of it up in global warming.

a lot of these narratives are man made from wealthy and influential groups, and how you commented on these things, is kind of dogmatic in a way when there isn't enough evidence or research.

Put it in perspective, i have a buddy who works in the investment industry, and he genuinely believes that stocks are the best investments ever, because that is his industry. he does not believe in other alternative investment vehicles and such. he is probably like that because that is his bread and butter.

religion as well, it is essentially shoved down people's throats and deemed as true without questioning it. and people who grew up believing every single word will deem it as the truth for them.

so, if i was a influential and powerful and wealthy individual, who owns new papers, media, alternative energy companies, carbon trading companies... what would you think my opinion would be? i would global warming is true, invest in alternative energy companies, lets save the world, i'll even bribe some of the democratic countries and governments to push my agenda for them.. they get richer, i get richer. I'll elect board members to the news paper or media outlets who agrees to my narrative, and i'm going to shove that narrative down everybodys throat. i'll even bribe the education minister to teach the narratives so future generations will also believe in it.

What all this going to do? make me richer and more powerful and more influential.

this is what i believe is currently happening in some of the narratives that is being swallowed by some of you guys.

for me, unless majority of the world can physically observe that we are speeding up the global warming process, then yeah, it could be true. but for me, i can't see it, so i don't know if it is true that we are speeding global warming up.

 

[Cabinmon]

I agree with much that has been said above. I don’t have time to write a 1000 word essay so I’ll just shoot out a few points. Ever since I discovered an abandoned wind farm at South Point, Island of Hawaii, I’ve researched wind power. There are thousands of abandoned wind farms worldwide. The only reason they were built were political and with big subsidies. Subsidies die, so do the wind farms. They will never produce as much energy in their lifetime to match the energy that it took to make them. Ditto for solar. Germany who is light years ahead of us building wind and solar is undergoing a huge undertaking to build many many coal fired generating plants, albeit with very high technology. Think about that one. Alberta has not done as well as Norway as far as investing the oil generated revenues, that’s a fact. BUT Norway’s oil is North Sea, and easily shipped abroad. As well I might add Norway’s oil has been nationalized so it’s Norway’s oil. Alberta oil and gas on the other hand is a provincial asset, that has regularly seen discriminatory regulations placed on it by various Federal Governments especially now. I know of no other country in the world that represses the economic well being of a particular jurisdiction for political reasons as does our beloved Canada. It must stop.

 

[Guest 2]

Only Peter Lougheed contributed to the heritage fund. No one else contributed the royalties, they used them like they were free money! That's why Norway is so far ahead!

 

[Spexx]

Only Peter Lougheed contributed to the heritage fund. No one else contributed the royalties, they used them like they were free money! That's why Norway is so far ahead!

Finally. Someone with some sense.

 

[ChaosFactor]

The govt needs to sort out its systems not spend more money.
We have one of the worst health systems in Canada even though we spend more money on healthcare than any other province.
The waste isn't on the front lines its behind the scenes such as Marketing departments that hire external agencies to do their work..

 

[guest 2]

Doctors have to have a "face to face" meeting to renew a prescription!! How wasteful is that - especially since most Doctors only remember what the last drug salesman told them!

 

[Guest 2]

44: years with the Conservatives, now they're going to be better!! Why???? And how??

 

[Guest 2]

People need to take control of their health care, do your research, (not the bs that's not vetted) and make your doctor accountable! Health is not a numbers game like most Doctors follow! OMG your blood sugar is 6.2 for fasting, you're diabetic!! It should be 6.1 or less Not!!
Remember, Doctors are human, they make mistakes! Don't think they are infallible!!

 

[michael garrett]

The govt needs to sort out its systems not spend more money.
We have one of the worst health systems in Canada even though we spend more money on healthcare than any other province.
The waste isn't on the front lines its behind the scenes such as Marketing departments that hire external agencies to do their work..

im not sure about our health care being the worst but I would suggest that 30% of our health care and other social programs are being abused...their are people from all over the world who claim welfare, aish, cpp and have ab health care cards...ab health has issued more cards than we have ever had population..we can no longer support our social programs without the tax money we had from a resource based economy

 

[ChaosFactor]

44: years with the Conservatives, now they're going to be better!! Why???? And how??

I will be the first to state same of the old PC's became corrupt but they always produced a strong economy and never divided Albertans.
The NDP lied and ignored the people and used fear to try and divide and that is where they lost me

 

[luckydog]

If the PCs did such a great job with the economy how come the only ones who saw income gains of any substance were the top 1% or more to the point the top .01 percent - the super wealthy. Check out the data. Over 33 years the gains for the bottom 99% saw an average gain of .2 percent per year. PCs did what Kenny will do, ensure the wealthy get wealthier and the rest of us not so much.

The Carbon Tax is a scam and needs to go provincially and then federally. Does anyone know where all that money goes to help the environment? Shouldn't it be invested into Alberta oil and gas to better improve technology?
BC's carbon tax eventually went into general revenues and that is what will happen everywhere unless we fight back.
I have seen this argument that big businesses are the only ones who benefit but we need to look at the hierarchy of business to see this is false.
- Tax credit or rate is offered to business who takes advantage
- Business takes risk by investing in opening
- Business hires people to work
- Workers get paid and spend their money at other businesses
- Workers pay taxes that allow govt services to be offered
- Company sells shares that people invest in for their RRSP's

There is more positives but I think this makes the point that it's not the 100%. If people want to take advantage of the rebates then take the risk and invest in your own business.
The biggest fallacy out there is that money is evil as are the 1% because they own it. Money is a tool no different than a hammer and some people are better at using that tool.
No offense to you LD but people have been trained to be workers from a young age and not take risks. How many on here heard from a young age "go to school and get a good job" instead of "go create your dream"?
I have no hate for those who have the courage to create a successful business

 

[Cabinmon]

Doctors have to have a "face to face" meeting to renew a prescription!! How wasteful is that - especially since most Doctors only remember what the last drug salesman told them!

My doctor renews by fax from the pharmacy. And our health care system is not perfect, but how many places in the world would you have 10 years of cancer surgery and chemo and not put you in the poor house? Damn few

 

[distinguished.gentleman]

im not sure about our health care being the worst but I would suggest that 30% of our health care and other social programs are being abused...their are people from all over the world who claim welfare, aish, cpp and have ab health care cards...ab health has issued more cards than we have ever had population..we can no longer support our social programs without the tax money we had from a resource based economy

I don't think any system can operate without abuse, and that's factored into the overall cost of the programs. I can speak to the value of the system to me, having had ailing parents over a number of years, a grandchild who had extreme health issues for two years, and two friends who dealt with heart problems. Access has always been excellent, and care was above reproach. I'm sure for every story like mine there are tales of neglect, or over waiting, but I've never had direct confirmations from anyone I've known. Unfortunately, healthcare is always going to be contentious in the budget.
I also spend a good deal of time in the US. The abuse there is the healthcare companies 'boning' the patients monetarily.

 

[ChaosFactor]

If the PCs did such a great job with the economy how come the only ones who saw income gains of any substance were the top 1% or more to the point the top .01 percent - the super wealthy. Check out the data. Over 33 years the gains for the bottom 99% saw an average gain of .2 percent per year. PCs did what Kenny will do, ensure the wealthy get wealthier and the rest of us not so much.

View attachment 97806

Funny comment considering all the guys on here go for expensive massages several times a month some couple of times a week. Massage therapists from China who flock here because we throw money at them and an escort industry that charges the highest rates nationwide.
Then lets talk cabins, investments and big boy toys. How many on here have those? Alberta has the highest median income so yeah the PC's did pretty good.
I would say there is a high percent of disposable income here for more than just the 1% unless everyone else on here is the 1%