Chat Subtle corruption

[UsefulIdiot]

Sorry, this is a stream of consciousness, I just needed to express myself. Clarence Thomas was wined and dined by a billionaire, given gifts whose total value is many times his salary and has consistently acted in the interests of the ownership class. His sugar daddy claims business was never discussed, and that could actually be true. He did not have to ask for anything, Clarence knew that the gifts and hanging out with the super rich would stop if he did not do what he needed to do to keep the good times going. Overt corruption is much easier to identify and stop. Subtle corruption works extremely well, especially when there are huge imbalances in power. This is also true in regular life. Often a person or organization with a little bit of power will promote and reward people who do things that are not asked of them, but who figure out and do what is desired of them. Or think about a rich person who dates a poor person - he or she is much more likely to compromise themselves and do what they need to stay in the orbit of the person with the power. When the powerful do not give orders or offer explicit quid pro quos, they keep their hands clean, and any consequences are only suffered by the useful idiots that they seduce.

 

[Dongo]

I agree, it has been the way of the world wrong, right or conditional since the beginning of human history. The same psychological needs, wants and differences in peoples ability to achieve dominance is what created religions, ruled empires and kept despots and villains in power.

 

[UsefulIdiot]

I agree, it has been the way of the world wrong, right or conditional since the beginning of human history. The same psychological needs, wants and differences in peoples ability to achieve dominance is what created religions, ruled empires and kept despots and villains in power.

Great reply and sadly fatalistic - "And the beat goes on..."

 

[ludwigr]

What we call corruption is usually "using power to gain more power". That's the law of life -- a predator does the same thing, except overtly. Suppression of individual will to power in favour of nation building is possible only through either strict moral standards, as was the case in many successful ancient societies, or top-down authoritarianism. Raising our moral standards today is out of question. And anyone who wants to clean up the mess is labelled a "fascist". We're going down the drain, just enjoy the free fall.

 

[UsefulIdiot]

What we call corruption is usually "using power to gain more power". That's the law of life -- a predator does the same thing, except overtly. Suppression of individual will to power in favour of nation building is possible only through either strict moral standards, as was the case in many successful ancient societies, or top-down authoritarianism. Raising our moral standards today is out of question. And anyone who wants to clean up the mess is labelled a "fascist". We're going down the drain, just enjoy the free fall.

So as a society we have to decide what is an acceptable level of corruption? That is cynical, but likely true. To quote Obama “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.

 

[ludwigr]

So as a society we have to decide what is an acceptable level of corruption? That is cynical, but likely true. To quote Obama “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.

Who decides what is acceptable? My point is "corruption" is the natural order of life in well-off societies unless a top-down force channels the individual's will to power to benefit the state. That force can be a moral standard set by religion (as in ancient India) or nationalism (as in ancient Sparta and Rome) or authoritarian fear (as with Mongols)

 

[UsefulIdiot]

Who decides what is acceptable? My point is "corruption" is the natural order of life in well-off societies unless a top-down force channels the individual's will to power to benefit the state. That force can be a moral standard set by religion (as in ancient India) or nationalism (as in ancient Sparta and Rome) or authoritarian fear (as with Mongols)

Well isn't that what democracy, for all its' flaws, is all about?

 

[cali99]

Who decides what is acceptable? My point is "corruption" is the natural order of life in well-off societies unless a top-down force channels the individual's will to power to benefit the state. That force can be a moral standard set by religion (as in ancient India) or nationalism (as in ancient Sparta and Rome) or authoritarian fear (as with Mongols)

Who decides what is acceptable is in the courts, judges, lawyers and others skill set etc...
look at todays ruling against fox!
and others of recent value!

 

[Dongo]

The Fox debacle was a con by the media and they got caught, the entire US political scene is corruption exemplified. Greed and power are the motivator.
At least the clouded democratic process offers some hope for the countries relatively blessed .
Authoritarian dictatorships i.e. Russia, North Korea, China and military coups i.e. Myanmar and now Sudan joins that group of power hungry despots that are worse than the corrupt leadership they replaced. There have been countless over recent decades from Cambodia to Haiti and half of the African continent countries.

 

[LoinHeart Charley]

Excuse me, all old guys, here is an adult forum. Let's talk about girls!

 

[xtc27]

Excuse me, all old guys, here is an adult forum. Let's talk about girls!

It belongs in ChitChat TBH, not Toronto Massage forum… although gotta confess, gd read

 

[Apolyton]

This excellent thoughtfil post is exactly where it needs to be and read by intelligent people with a balanced world view.

Unfortunately, I wonder how much time it will take for the shitposters to derail it and reduce it into a pissing match.

 

[ludwigr]

Who decides what is acceptable is in the courts, judges, lawyers and others skill set etc...
look at todays ruling against fox!
and others of recent value!

Courts, judges, lawyers are all pawns. Pay attention to who plays these pawns. If you still look at the world in terms of good and evil, I have nothing more to say. But if you go beyond good and evil, then you'll see it's a power struggle through and through, "liberal democracy" and "equal rights" included.

 

[UsefulIdiot]

Courts, judges, lawyers are all pawns. Pay attention to who plays these pawns. If you still look at the world in terms of good and evil, I have nothing more to say. But if you go beyond good and evil, then you'll see it's a power struggle through and through, "liberal democracy" and "equal rights" included.

You are a smart guy but you are way too cynical for a 34 year old. The only reason that society works at all is that most people have some empathy and a sense of responsibility. Most people would not steal, rape or murder if they could get away with it. To be sure there is some fraction, say 1%, who would - the stupid ones end up in jail, and the smart ones navigate their way to the top of the pecking order. It is not good enough to just accept that this is the way of the world. There is a famous quote "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”. Apparently this is based on a quote by the philosopher John Stuart Mill - "Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” There will always be predators, and the rest of us need to keep them in check. And when it comes to the more subtle forms of corruption we need to keep ourselves in check.

 

[sexpuppy]

Subtle? To the general population it may appear subtle because the general public is clueless as ever but to the perceptive they will see in your face corruption everywhere at the highest level. You may think you live in a so-called democracy but it's in reality a kleptocracy.

 

[UsefulIdiot]

Subtle? To the general population it may appear subtle because the general public is clueless as ever but to the perceptive they will see in your face corruption everywhere at the highest level. You may think you live in a so-called democracy but it's in reality a kleptocracy.

So there is no hope, give up and do nothing, people suck, you are either predator or prey so get yours and fuck the rest?

 

[ludwigr]

You are a smart guy but you are way too cynical for a 34 year old. The only reason that society works at all is that most people have some empathy and a sense of responsibility. Most people would not steal, rape or murder if they could get away with it. To be sure there is some fraction, say 1%, who would - the stupid ones end up in jail, and the smart ones navigate their way to the top of the pecking order. It is not good enough to just accept that this is the way of the world. There is a famous quote "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”. Apparently this is based on a quote by the philosopher John Stuart Mill - "Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” There will always be predators, and the rest of us need to keep them in check. And when it comes to the more subtle forms of corruption we need to keep ourselves in check.

Not cynical lol. And I don't mean power in a negative sense, but in a Nietzschean sense. Life is will to power -- "This world is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power—and nothing besides!" So what is termed "good" in a democratic society is the will to power of the masses. Therefore, an ideal democracy is one where the democratic institutions are subordinate to the will to power of the masses. And individual will to power is kept in check only through pressures of conformity and numbers (which take the form of "selfless morals"). Eventually as times get easier, such morals decline and individual will surfaces across classes. Then the only way to clamp down on these individual wills is top-down force.

 

[Mav]

As long as there are people with power advantages, people with more money than other people, unintentional indirect corruption will happen. It is just how it goes....

 

[sy barite]

...the philosopher John Stuart Mill - "...

JSM championed free speech. His most important lesson is lost today.

 

[Ninersfan]

This retard @UsefulIdiot will literally start a new thread after every single shower thought he has.

I'm about to start doing the same shit.