Question Toronto or the Middle East?

[stripfan]

I don't think God has spoken to any of the chosenites in a few thousand years, but they still want the land.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1397263422522265601

 

[sy barite]

If a one state solution where all citizens are afforded equal and free rights, rights to vote, and the ability yo determine their own futures in a democratic and meritocratic society, there would be no need for Hamas. Hamas would have to dissolve itself and assimilation would be required so that everyone can live peacefully together. Also, if everyone is free and equal with equal rights, there should be no distinction between whether someone is a European Jew or a Palestinian in government, as all people would be citizens of the same state. The political parties would be the same as the ones in other countries (eg, conservatives, liberals etc.)

Why is this a difficult concept for you to grasp? Do you have a particular penchant for violence, tension and drama?

Read Hamas' charter? So, the story starts here? lol Ask yourself why Hamas was created and what it would take for Hamas to dissolve itself. Hamas was established in 1987, almost 40 years after the creation of Israel and after enduring 40 years of oppression, occupation and violence against Palestinians. Your inability to acknowledge this fact, and the fact that no group of people is lesser than any other, and that no one should accept oppression and occupation, is staggering.

I understand and appreciate your view. But you have to ask yourself, is continued oppression, killing and occupation the answer? If it has not resulted in Palestinian submission over the last 73 years, what makes you think prolonging this strategy will eventually become effective? This sounds like insanity to me.

A more humane and respectful approach is in order. A plea for forgiveness for years of oppression with the promise, in good faith, that the future will be bright for all with equal and full rights seems like the only logical and effective solution for healing old wounds, repairing relationships and fostering growth and prosperity for all.

If you want to get into hypotheticals about why Hamas exists, we can do that. But as you like to say, "that's another discussion". Let me just warn you I'll make you look as silly in that discussion as I have in this.

Wake up, smell the coffee, in the world that we live in, Hamas does exist and enjoys significant support among Palestinians. So take off the Tinkerbell tutu, stop prancing around throwing flower petals, and answer my question. How do you suppose that with the leaders who exist today, you would achieve your one state solution? Please, give us the benefit of your insight backed up with actual real life references instead of treating us to these "can't we all just get along" motherhood statements. So far, you're making yourself out to be a ninny. Moreover, in all likelihood your opinion is anti-Semitic, as I doubt you'd counsel any other group that had been attacked as Israel has to try form a state with genocidal attackers.

 

[jimmyd]

You're such an idiot. Why would the Palestinians accept this partition plan? lol This is the real question to ask yourself lol

Your racism and hate for Palestine and the Palestinians has clouded your judgment to the point that you cannot conceive equality for all. This conversation is a nonstarter with you if you do not espouse human rights for all lol You're pathetic.

That’s your reasoning? “Why would Palestinians accept this partition plan”? Pretty weak.


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[Sybarite]

Even though those of us who argue politics on Massage Planet are clearly in a much better position to know what's best for the Middle East rather than the people who actually live there, nevertheless it's interesting to note there is very little support amongst any future citizens for a one state solution, morally superior as it may (theoretically) be...

In the West bank and Gaza, Palestinians prefer a two state outcome by almost two to one. And the marginalized Israeli Arab community wants a single state with their Palestinian brethren even less - only 13% support the idea! Meanwhile amongst Jewish Israelis only 10% support a one state solution, perhaps in part because they are skeptical about co-existing with large groups of people who have historically wanted to wipe them out...

Even if we know what's best for them much better than they do themselves, it's a rather serious obstacle that the people on the ground reject a single state and feel two separate states would be a much more practical and preferable solution. Maybe that's because it would be. Although it would be great if everyone could just live together in peace and harmony, there are pretty powerful reasons deeply rooted in human nature as to why nation states exist in the first place.

 

[jimmyd]

No the primary point of this thread was your rhetorical question of why they are protesting and why can't they go back to their land. These questions were sufficiently answered, but your racist ass didn't like the responses you received lol This sounds like a personal problem lol

I must’ve missed that point. Exactly where did I ask “why can’t they go back to their land”?

Your sensitivities were irked because you know the answer to my question is the picture looks like the Middle East.

And you claim that the Palestinians are so different from Hamas, but you can neither explain or condemn the violence towards innocent Jews in North America and Europe. You still haven’t answered how beating up a Jew in Toronto/Los Angeles/New York is supposed to solve a long standing conflict.


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[jimmyd]

The only person looking silly in this conversation is your dumb ass, boomer! lol

Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism lol If someone were to beat your ass in the streets of Toronto because their perversed perception of their "religion" told them they have a right to do so, would your ignorant ass just sit there on the ground and take it? No. You would waddle your way to the nearest police station. But guess what fuck face, Palestinians can't do this. You're so profoundly stupid you should win an award lol



You want an example, with actual real life references, for the 50th time: South Africa, dipshit.

You’re pretty emotional for a guy that said he doesn’t want to partake in this conversation. Calm down, bro.

Ninny does sound like a great name for you.


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[jimmyd]

2000

President Bill Clinton hosted peace talks at Camp David between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, with a proposed peace plan known as the “Clinton Parameters.”

Despite the impactful requirements of Israel put forward by the plan — including “custodianship” over the Temple mount, sovereignty on all Islamic and Christian holy sites, and three of Jerusalem’s four Old City quarters — Barak accepted the plan. Arafat rejected the offer, and refused to make an immediate counter-offer. He then returned home, after which the second intifada occurred, including suicide bombing attacks against Jewish civilians.


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[sy barite]

I have a Jewish friend whose kids sound just like the know nothings like our friend BDP here. They whine about how Israel is so nasty to Palestinians without even rudimentary knowledge of the situation. All their Tiktok brains know is that it's cool to criticize Israel.

 

[sy barite]

Even though those of us who argue politics on Massage Planet are clearly in a much better position to know what's best for the Middle East rather than the people who actually live there, nevertheless it's interesting to note there is very little support amongst any future citizens for a one state solution, morally superior as it may (theoretically) be...

But isn't the armchair pontificating fun?

Your comment reminds me of a chat I had once. In 1992 I was in Egypt for a month and a week of that I spent in the Sinai. Back then Dahab (it's now a resort area), was just getting under construction and the area was still unspoiled desert running up to the clearest most beautiful ocean waters you could imagine. I stayed in a little oasis where someone had built a collection of cement "huts" around a well. Power came from a collection of car batteries. Water had to be pumped by hand. Travelers were poor backpackers, as I was back then, and the locals were barely making enough to eat and keep a roof over their heads. I relay these details because it's important to convey that I wasn't interacting with the educated and rich. At night, there was always a big gathering around a fire where we'd eat, drink talk and smoke. Nothing else to do. We talked A LOT about this issue. I put the same question to many of the Egyptian and Palestinian folks I spoke with. I asked, if God came down to earth tomorrow with the "perfect" solution to the Nakba, but it involved living in peace with the Jews, would you be happy? Almost no one said they would be. I remember one Egyptian woman who said peace was the most important thing, being silenced by a look from her husband. Opinions varied, from the Jews having to pay some kind of reparations, to just being killed. Sad, but the hate was more important than the solution. This is why talk of a one state solution (at least at this time) is just another way of saying Israel will not exist. People who talk of it are at best well meaning, but hopelessly naïve.

 

[sy barite]

, and your storytelling style speaks volumes about who you are lol

See, I knew we'd eventually agree. Keep paying attention and you may grow up.

 

[sy barite]

You were done before you started.

 

[jimmyd]

You're so stupid. You have nothing to do in your life, so you elect to vent your frustrations on protestors who are pleading for equal rights and freedom for Palestinians. No amount of education will help you empathize with others because you were taught racism by your parents and this is now your fundamental constitution.

The picture looks like any other city in the world with people protesting for Palestine.

Do you even know what you are saying? lol

Palestinian people are the indigenous people of the land. Hamas is a group that formed in 1987 as a result of 40 years of Israeli oppression against Palestinians. Why do you think they formed? Because Israel was treating them with dignity and respect? lol It really is pointless conversing with you because you are either an expert troll or truly profoundly stupid lol

Beating up a Jew is not the answer, but again you are conflating the issue there. The people fighting on the streets were not just Jews, they were Israeli supporters waving the Israeli flag, therefore they are racist cucks who do not care about the plight of the Palestinians. Hence, their presence at a pro-Palestinian rally is inflammatory, especially when they oppose what Palestinians are asking for, which is an end to the senseless killing of Palestinians, an end to the occupation, and an end to the apartheid regime. This is crystal clear and the entire world knows this as evidenced by the mass support by citizens of the world. You are currently standing on the wrong side of history, and in the same way Nazi soldiers we tried for their war crimes many years after the Holocaust, the day of reckoning will come for Israeli soldiers who commit war crimes against Palestinians.

This can all be rectified with an end to the occupation. Your opinion and views will not stop this. The overwhelming proportion of global citizens stand in solidarity with Palestine.

Seems like you’re in here more than I am. I guess I can ask you the same question, “You have nothing to do in your life, so you elect to vent your frustrations on” Israel?

I noticed you couldn’t find me asking “why can’t they go back to their land”? But, I’ll wait. People who are losing arguments usually misquote others.

I take so much joy in the fact you’ve hitched yourself to a narrative that doesn’t allow you to condemn violence and lawlessness. It should’ve been a clue for you from the beginning. We’ve loved watching your mental gymnastics to justify innocent Jews getting beat up.


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[jimmyd]

Your quote: "Which begs the questions, if these people love Palestine so much, why are they here?

Where are they supposed to go, fuck face? They can't return to their homeland. So, where do you want them to go?

I hold everyone coming into this country to the same standards I hold myself, my family, and my friends. We come to this country, we leave our bullshit behind, and we obey Canada’s laws.

Palestinians shouldn’t go anywhere. We welcome them to Canada, just like we welcome all races and cultures. And like all other cultures, they get no special allowances for breaking laws and committing violence.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with anti Semitic douchebags like you, though.


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[stripfan]

Is the US govt now an extension of Israel? Why do people who make up 2% of the population make up 70% of the cabinet?

Biden’s Slew Of Jews

Biden’s Slew Of Jews

brothernathanaelchannel.com

 

[Sybarite]

So you mean to tell me that you are writing from Gaza right now? And that Palestinians prefer a two-state solution? lol Learn to read and then read this Why there can never be a two-state solution

The problem lies with the oppressor not the oppressed. It is Israel's responsibility to right its wrongs. Had Israel not occupied Palestine and not oppressed Palestinians for over 7 decades there would be no reason for resistance and retaliation. It amazes me that you cannot acknowledge or admit this lol

No I'm not in Gaza right now... are you? I never claimed to be in the Middle East. I was pointing out that what the Palestinians themselves want should matter much for than your facile solutions in Massage Planet. Yes they do indeed prefer a two state solution. Lol learn to read and then read this - why there can never be a one-state solution: In defense of the two-state solution

Just because you are so fervidly certain you're right about everything doesn't actually make it the case…

You're taking what is arguably the world's most intractable geo-political conflict and trying to make it seem like both the problem and solution are incredibly obvious and simple. They are not. There is this thing called politics because people don’t agree, even when you are so totally sure your view is without a doubt the absolutely correct one.

Are you actually really saying only Israel has wrongs to right? That the problem solely lies with the oppressor and the oppressed have no responsibilities of their own?

If so I can see why it's all so straightforward from your Manichean perspective, but needless to say that's an easy perspective to have when you're commenting from the sidelines. The diplomats and politicians who have been wrestling with this dilemma for decades feel the situation is way more complex than that, because it is.

Just because the Palestinians are oppressed does not mean 100% of all responsibility falls on Israel. Just because the Palestinians are oppressed that does not automatically justify any and all forms of retaliatory violence. An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind...

 

[sy barite]

Why do people who make up 2% of the population make up 70% of the cabinet?

Biden’s Slew Of Jews

Biden’s Slew Of Jews

brothernathanaelchannel.com

Perhaps for the same reason that 22% of all Nobel Prize winners are Jewish.

 

[northofgta]

I can see why Palestinians and other Islam supporting dirtbags have to continuously lie and trash the Israelis non stop.

I mean, No wonder your bitter when you've had your fuckin ass handled to ya in EVERY SINGLE battle for the last thousand years LOL


Keep the crying coming boys, Its rather comical, You don't understand how this world works, You never will.

The strong survive and thrive, The weak live in the gutters and cry when they continue to lose.


I'm not even Jewish either LOL, I just see it how it is. The Roman's were hated for a long time too, Because they raped and pillaged many cultures as well.

It's OK Stripfan and BackinToronto, You know it's true so you can call me all the names you want, you can't disregard the facts hahaha!

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[stripfan]

Perhaps for the same reason that 22% of all Nobel Prize winners are Jewish.

No, it's not the same reason. The Nobel winners deserve those prizes. Cabinet members are appointed. They should not all be from a minority because it would create the inevitable suspicion that there is a cabal going on.

 

[sy barite]

No, it's not the same reason. The Nobel winners deserve those prizes. Cabinet members are appointed. They should not all be from a minority because it would create the inevitable suspicion that there is a cabal going on.

Right.

So it seems more likely to you that they're appointing them for a dark nefarious conspiratorial reason...and not they're smart and merit the position. You accept that Jews are disproportionately represented in the Nobel Prize arena for legitimate reasons, but reject that those same reasons could be winning them responsible positions in government. Here's what I say, you're making an exceptional claim, so provide exceptional proof. Go to your list of appointed Jews and tell me which one does not merit the position and why.

 

[sy barite]

What's endlessly amusing is how racists like Stripfan reason in precisely the same way as the intellectual left these days. They cherry pick facts to fit their narrative and disregard everything else. That's how the left comes to see an enormous problem in blacks being under represented as CEOs of tech corporations, but see no issue with blacks being over represented in the NBA. For them, one is clear evidence of racism the other is....