Discectomy - After the Operation

[chansikvyg]

Conspiracy Theory )))

 

[rnqvzoid]

Hi
I had a traditional microdiscectomy and certainly did not have any form of drilling through any bone for the surgery to be done!!

And my surgery was a complete success so traditional surgery can and does work and qiote right Ex pom the recovery process is just as important as the surgery.


Regards

 

[dheyenne]

Then how on earth did they get to the disc? Traditional microdisectomy, if that can be called traditional, includes smaller incision through the back skin and muscle then removing a part of the lamina usually with a drill or saw, but, the surgeons find people are squeamish about the process so unless people ask, they do not tell.

 

[fwmosher]

Hi
I am not squeamish and asked every detail of the surgery as I was worried as anyone would be. The muscles dont have to be cut as mine werent, they were moved and then the disc is fully accessible. This is what my surgeon told me and I believe what he said. My op lasted less than 30 minutes and I was up walking 2 hours later. I was back teaching 20 classes a week a month later so it couldn't have been that evasive!!
Regards

 

[GutsEnsuele]

Then how on earth did they get to the disc? Traditional microdisectomy, if that can be called traditional, includes smaller incision through the back skin and muscle then removing a part of the lamina usually with a drill or saw, but, the surgeons find people are squeamish about the process so unless people ask, they do not tell.[



Hi all. Have a look on YouTube . Evolution of minimally Invasive surgery . It may be a debate stopper. Or starter . . Dunno how to use the site that well so I posted here.. As I have observed b4 there is NO Minimal invasive surgery . Perhaps Gandalf or Dumbeldore have a way" discus expeliamus " giggle .

 

[deep]

Hi all. Have a look on YouTube . Evolution of minimally Invasive surgery . It may be a debate stopper. Or starter . . Dunno how to use the site that well so I posted here.. As I have observed b4 there is NO Minimal invasive surgery . Perhaps Gandalf or Dumbeldore have a way" discus expeliamus " giggle . [/quote]


Ex Pom, here are some of the sites I have highlighted previously:
www.spinal-foundation.org
www.bonati.com
www.laserspineinstitute.com
www.microspine.com
To name but a few.

Hiya Fitbird, i'm very interested in the procedure you had done, I am looking for one my self. Who did you have it done by? Was it on the NHS? and which hospital was it at? Hope you don't mind me asking!

Many thanks.

SPINELF

 

[Xahudu]

Hello All,

I am looking for some advice after recently having a microdiscectomy L4/L5 (2 weeks yesterday)
My original problem occured August 2010, severe pain down left leg, lots of physio(to no avail) and a lot of waiting for MRI scan, appointments etc. After about 6 months the pain had eased but over doing anything aggrevated it again. Finally saw the Neurosurgeon and he booked me in for the surgery.

I had the surgery on the Thursday and was discharged on Midday Friday. The surgeon came to see me for a minute before I left and seemed to be happy and commented that the disc had been stuck to the nerve root cos it had been out so long but all went well(although I was in surgery for about 4 hours???)

2 weeks on and I have stopped the pain killers and in the last 2 days have gone out for a couple of short walks and have been doing the exercises the physio gave me since I left hospital. My problem is I now have some pain/tingling in my left calf/buttock where it was originally painful but had kind of gone before the op. As the surgeon has been rooting about my spine for 4 hours and messing about with nerves is this normal and will it take time to go. I know it has only been 2 weeks and I know things need to settle and repair themselves but should I be concerned that he has knackered me??? I am very impatient and a massive pessemist so am I expecting to much?? What sort of timescales do you look at with these things??

I have read through alot of the posts on this site and you all seem to be very helpful so could someone give me a bit of sound advice as it would be greatly appreciated and may help me sleep at night if I can stop worrying

 

[Julianne T]

Hello All,

I know it has only been 2 weeks and I know things need to settle and repair themselves but should I be concerned that he has knackered me??? I am very impatient and a massive pessemist so am I expecting to much?? What sort of timescales do you look at with these things??


You have answered your own question steely my friend, it is too early to become overly concerned or pessimistc. it will probably take months to reach a settled state.

Enquire with your GP or health trust, about attending post operative or cardiovascular fitness courses at your local sport centre! Group sessions are good for motivation and mental wellbeing, as well as physical endurence and muscular improvements.

Just take your time, Take it slow. write down a detailed record of how you are progressing, eg:
how much further are you walking each day/week.
what type of pains or symptoms are you feeling.
How fast are your symptoms improving.
How many repitiitions of particular exrcises can you do.
and so on!

It's good to do this, because when recovering from major operations, it is so easy to become pessimistic, and underestimate just how much you are actually improving.
This record will keep you honest, and when you look back on it, you should see a steady improvement in you physical ability, stamina and mobility and feel much less worried and stressed.

Best of luck

SPINELF

 

[szexbulrizzibheoy]

Thanks Spinelf,

Appreciate you took the time to reply. I am starting to make progress with my walks, just doing a couple of short ones twice a day at the moment to start building my strength up and continuing with the exercises the hospital physio gave me. Still don't know when I can up the exercises as my follow up appointment with the surgeon is weeks away and and being as impatient as I am I don't want to go to fast and knacker everything again??

From what I have been told from my very experienced osteopath and physios that I have seen in the past is that I need to build up my core strength to help support my back as alot of the back problems I have had become apparent through a lack of core strength and bad posture (2 1/2 stone over weight doesn't help either!!!) but Iwill work on that when I can fully exercise again. I was a keen runner before I did my back in, don't klnow if I will be able to get back into it in the future?/ but I was actually thinking about starting Pilates, possibly Yoga! don't know if you or anyone else has tried this after having this operation and if they have has it helped. what do you think?? Maybe worth a go. Don't know if the leotard will suit me right enough !.

Anyway, thanks again for the info, you have been a big help

Best tregards

Steely

 

[MetFoumnAuton]

Hi steelj4

I'm a Pilates teacher and would highly recommend Pilates following your back op. Make sure you find a teacher that has knowledge of back injuries and back surgery so they can guide you correctly. As far as doing Yoga is concerned it is not as beneficial to back patients and if your core is not strong enough some of the poses can actually be more harm than good. I suggest you build up your core strength with Pilates and then try Yoga when much stronger.

Good luck with your recovery and take your time!!
Fitbird

 

[mommy 2010]

(quote=fitbird)
I had a traditional microdiscectomy and certainly did not have any form of drilling through any bone for the surgery to be done!! And my surgery was a complete success so traditional surgery can and does work.

Hi
The muscles dont have to be cut as mine werent, they were moved and then the disc is fully accessible.


Hiya Fitbird, i'm very interested in the surgical procedure you had done, I am looking for one myself, as I now have 2 impingements at 2 different levels to consider for surgical removal.

Was it on the NHS?
Which hospital was it carried out at?
and What Surgeon did it for you?

Hope you don't mind me asking?
It's just that I need to make a decision soon, for my family's sake.

Many thanks.

SPINELF

 

[Fu2]

I would love there to be a microdisectomy that didn't cut muscle, even vertically, and that didn't have to go through the vertebrae/facet/lamina but I can't see how that is physically possible with the structure of the back? Perhaps the disc protrusion that was operated on was sideways or was the incision not in the middle of the back?

 

[Chaos 2011]

Its possibly only if surgeon name is Houdini

 

[Agent Fox]

Now! Now! Play Nice!!

 

[Davy Agrimath]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and just found it today while educating myself about post op discectomy questions. I must say, I am very concerned with most of you that post on here. I say that with respect and with no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. I am absolutely shocked and appalled by the care and treatment that you all have received before, during and after your discectomy procedures.

That being said, I am aware that this is a UK site, and I live here in the United States. I am not familiar with your health care system or the logistics for having these type of procedures/surgery. I can however tell you my story and then ask that you thoroughly educate yourselves and make the best possible decisions.

I have been dealing with herniated disc L4-5 and L5-S1 for over 10 years, now. I'm only 33 years old and this all started back when I was 21. Since I was so young, I wanted to do everything I could to avoid or prolong surgery. My healthcare does not require me to do this, though. I could have had surgery immediately. Instead, over the course of 10+ years, I did a multitude of things which included: Epidural steoid injections, trigger point injections, pain management (including exercise and medications), a Chiropractor, Hollistic Medication (natural anti-inflammatory), Yoga, Pilates, and I lost weight to try and decrease pressure.

A few months ago I sneezed and I immediately felt something in my back unhinge and then lock up. I could barely move and the pain kept progressing each day. My entire right leg had shooting nerve pain, numbing, tingling, cold sensation, etc. Some days I could barely walk. Injections and medication were no longer helping. My Pain Management doctor encouraged me to get a more recent MRI, which showed where my disc was slicing in to my spinal nerve. It was time to take serious action. My quality of life had been shot for so long and I was done going through the daily pain that I would entail. Not to mention the depression and loss of hair due to pain.

I met with my surgeon on Tues, Oct 4, 2011. He explained the discectomy surgery in detail, including what to do prior to surgery and what to expect post surgery. Less than two weeks later, I had the surgery - this past Monday, Oct 17th, 2011. It was an out-patient surgery; meaning, I was able to go home afterwards. My surgeon hasn't done an in-patient discectomy in over 15 years. I cannot believe that some of you spent days in the hospital. I physically walked out of the hospital, only 2 hours after my surgery was done. I felt great! No nerve pain in my leg at all. Normal soreness and aching that you would suspect from ANY type of surgery, but that's all.

It has now been 3 days since my surgery and I feel amazing. I'm not allowed to drive or sit, but I can walk (and I do, everywhere!) and lay down. I was walking up and down stairs the first day. Honestly though, I did not expect to be feeling this good and this soon. I truly thought that I would feel much much much worse. Don't get me wrong - I'm still sore. VERY SORE! I am still taking pain medication and an anti-inflammatory. I do think that I had been living in such horrendous pain, daily, for so long that anything would have felt better, than that.

Here is some advice to you all that haven't had surgery or are about to have surgery and don't know what to expect. Keep in mind - I am NOT a doctor, please seek care and instructions from your own doctor/nurse. This is just a guide to give you an idea of what to expect. Everyone is different. Also, please, please, please feel free to contact me for any questions you may have. Again, I'm not a doctor, but I can tell you about my own surgery and try and help you in any way I can to ease your concerns.

PRE OPERATIVE INSTRUCTIONS:
You should make arrangements for transportation to and from the hospital or surgery center. If general anesthesia is administered, please make arrangements for someone to stay with you for at least 24 hours following outpatient surgery.DO NOT eat or drink anything after 1200 midnight the night before your surgery.DO NOT consume alcoholic beverages 24 hours before your surgery.On the evening before and the morning of your surgery, take a thorough shower and wash your body using an anti-bacterial soap like Dial or Safeguard. Thoroughly lather particularly in the area of the planned surgery. It is recommended that you do not shave the area around your surgical site 3 days prior to your surgery. Please do not apply lotions, creams, perfumes, baby oil, etc on your body, especially on the surgical area.DISCONTINUE Aspirin or any aspirin-like products such as Ecotrin, Aleve, Advil, Motrin, Naprosyn, Naproxen, Ibuprofen, Indocin, Relafin, Daypro, Lodine, Mobic, Meloxican, Celebrex, Piroxicam, Arthrotec and Fish Oil at least 7 days prior to surgery. If this is not followed, your surgery could be cancelled.If you are taking any blood thinners, (ie. Coumadin or Plavix), it is very important to inform your medical doctor or cardiologist if applicable (whichever doctor has prescribed this for you)since this medicine will need to be stopped prior to surgery.If you take aspirin and have a cardiac history, contact your cardiologist to confirm that it is safe for you to discontinue aspirin.You may take Tylenol products until the day before your surgeryIn addition, Vitamin E and certain diet medications and herbal supplements must be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to your surgery. (I have a list of specific herbal supplements, if anyone needs it)You may need to take your blood pressure and/or cardiac medications on the morning of your surgery. Please discuss this with your family physician or your surgeon as soon as possible.If you are taking the medication Evista, and having lower extremity surgery, please notify your surgeon, as soon as possible.DO NOT chew gum or eat hard candy the day of surgery, it causes an increase in gastric juice production.DO NOT smoke the day of your surgery.You must call the surgical office within 3 days prior to your surgery if you have a cold or fever. Also, please inform them of any cut or scrape in area of the proposed incision.Please notify the surgical office if you have a Latex Allergy.General information for the day of your surgery:
Wear loose, comfortable clothing that is big enough to accommocate a large bandage after surgery. (My bandage is very small on my lower back, so this wasn't really a big deal.) Wear comfortable shoes. No high heels.You will need to change into a surgical gown. Only cotton underwear can be worn. (I had to be completely naked under my gown.)Do not wear any jewelry (including body piercings), make up, cologne, or nail polish. They encourage the removal of artificial nails.Wearing contact lenses is NOT advised. They provide containers for removable dentures and bridgework.Females will need to give a urine sample for a pregnancy test on your day of surgery.POST-OPERATIVE DISCHARGE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LUMBAR DISCECTOMY:
You may resume your regular diet as soon as you are able.NO SITTING, LIFTING, OR BENDING! You may sit for the ride home from the hospital. You may also sit to go to the bathroom.Rest today, increase activity tomorrow as tolerated. We encourage you to walk inside and outside, including climbing stairs as much as you can tolerate.No driving for 2 weeks or until your follow-up appointment with the doctor and he has given you permission.No alcoholic beverages for the next 24 hours or while you are taking pain medication.Resume all previous medicationsTake prescribed medication as needed. Excercise caution when walking or climbing stairs.You may take over the counter medications for relief and/or discomfort.You may remove dressing in 2-3 days, then shower. The steri-strips may be washed over and will eventually fall off. Keep the wound clean and dry.Follow-up care: See your doctor in 10-14 days.If you have persistent or increasing pain, call your physician.I know this is very long-winded, but I hope that you took the time to read it all and I hope some of this has helped you. Again, please feel free to contact me with any questions, at all.

Good luck to you all! I truly hope that your surgery will be successful, like mine and that you will soon be pain free!

-Amy

 

[David Moreno]

Hi everyone,
I am new to this site and just found it today while educating myself about post op discectomy questions. I must say, I am very concerned with most of you that post on here. I say that with respect and with no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. I am absolutely shocked and appalled by the care and treatment that you all have received before, during and after your discectomy procedures.

That being said, I am aware that this is a UK site, and I live here in the United States. I am not familiar with your health care system or the logistics for having these type of procedures/surgery. I can however tell you my story and then ask that you thoroughly educate yourselves and make the best possible decisions. (End quote)

---------------------------------

Hiya Amybt, and welcome.

The big difference between our 'spinal health care systems' is that the USA has seen a '200 fold increse' in Minimally Invasive Spinal Surgery Clinics (similar to bonati, laser spine, micro spine and so on) having been set up and operated in the USA over the last 6 years!

The minimally destructive and endoscopic surgical procedures carried out at these (MISS) clinics, allow for 'minimal to no' destruction of tendons, nerves, muscles tissue and bone as the Surgeon approaches the target area. This is in direct contrast to traditional what we call 'open back' spine surgery. In addition, these 'open procedures' usually incise an opening of beteen 3 - 6 inches to start, (MISS) requires less than 'one half an inch', so the advantages are obvious from the start.

Less damage, less complications!!

Also, the increasing pressure from these 'day surgery (MISS) clinics' on standard US spine surgeons, is considerable, because outcomes are so much better. The 'better' of the standard procedure spine surgeons therefore have to then 'up their game' in order to compete within US 'open market' health care systems.

These Surgeons can create 'good clinical outcomes' for thier patients, but it does require the Surgeon to respond positively to this pressure, I would suggest that these Surgeons are in the minority, in USA as well as the UK!

There 'are also' good standard spine surgeons in the UK who are also creating these positive clinical outcomes for thier patients using these outdated methods, as you will see detailed from members of the HP forum, but I would still suggest that these induviduals are few and far between and getting information on them and their apparently succesfull procedures,
is almost totally imposible!

This is because, I believe,
1) That there is less compitition in the UK.
2) That the 'old boys network' discourages British Spine Surgeons from moving into
the (MISS) area of superior surgery, because this would require extensive retraining.
3) Existing 'standard procedure' Spine Surgeons would lose work.
4) The closed NHS system discouges expperimental dynamism.

Best wishes

SPINELF

 

[Ben O]

How do you know she had MISS?

 

[PXStevey]

Hello all

Three years back I had an MRI scan as I was experiencing bad back and leg pain. I was diagnosed as having a prolapsed disc L5/S1. Medication and physiotherpy helped and the pain soon went away.
Over the three years since the sciatica pain would come and go, a couple of months pain free then pain for a couple of weeks.
Twelve weeks ago the pain came came and stayed. I was sent to physio and put on medication again. The physiotherpist, with which I was very suprised at just asked me a few questions then started to work on my back over a couple of weeks. She didnt refer to any scans?? The pain got worse, a lot worse and I was getting spasms in my hip and serious pins and needles with numbness in my foot and big toe as well as not being able to stand up, sit down walk, etc. I went back to my doctor who sent me to a spinal specialist. First thing the specialist did was to send me for another MRI. The results, nerve root compromise due to the prolapse growing.
I have an appointment with a specialist on Monday, 24/10. Im not sure if its with a surgeon or more physio. My doctor has said that if its more physio then to go back to see him and he will refer me to a surgeon. I hope to god its not physio as im very reluctant to let one touch my back after my previous experiences. I cant see how im going to get better without being operated on, after all my symptons have got worse over the last three years.

 

[Leo Carioca]

My '200 fold' statement should have read 200%!! My oppologies!

 

[Obanor]

I don't believe I did claim this Fitbird!!

Please read it again, and don't just peddle your apparently negative and factless agenda.

The point I was making, was that the commercial pressure put on 'standard Spine Surgeons' (what Amybt calls 'Traditional' Spine Surgeons) in the USA
by the better results of US MISS clinics, is forcing the 'better traditional ones
to become 'more careful' with the procedures they perform, and by concequence, are giving a better clinical outcome to their patients.
I believe it is one of these 'better Traditional Surgeons' that operated on Amybt, not an MISS one. I hope that makes that clear!

From what I have read in medical magazines, in the USA, medical insurance providers like Medicare and Medicaid, have started to refuse payment for traditional decompression procedures like Fusion. This is because they are seeing 'repeat after repeat' of the fusion procedures on the same patient, where as MISS treatments are being veiwed as better value for money, because of the faster and better beneficial effects and the better long term clinical outcomes. Hence, the explosion in US MISS clincs!

I still stand by my belief, based on reading HP threads, my experiences, the experiences of family, friends and aquantences, that these 'better Surgeons' are few and far between. So far, now one has provided any evidence to force me to change my veiws. Open Back based procedures are old fashioned, destructive and according to Spine Surgeons I have met, causes as much damage as it repairs.

Once again I offer this challenge:

If anyone can provide us with factual, tracable, medically based and peer reviewed evidence that 'Traditional' decompression is safe, effective and approriate in offering patients a high degree of good clinical outcomes. please post the evidence or links to the same on this HP forum.

Those members who recall my previous and recent requests, will remember that we are as yet to recieve such evidence, lets hope someone will prove us wrong hey!!

All the best


SPINELF