godamn why is it always `closed` as soon as someone makes a good point?

[dyingatheist]

That is a very bad thing. Are you aware of bar owners who do not check the cards?

BG's with AIDS should not be working. Bar owners who bend the rules on this one are simply very bad people in my views. I hope you are not going to tell me that MTB does not check the medical card of BG's.

A few weeks ago one BG told me a BG was handcuffed by the MIB because she could not show her medical card while working in a bar.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Interesting that you want to talk about moral standards. You must realize that many would consider all p4p immoral, or even paying 1000 BHT LT.

There is nothing wrong with have a personal moral standard when it comes to how little one pays a BG. But it is another thing to judge those who negotiate a much lower amount.

Those who judge harshly on people who pay less to a BG should perhaps get a sense of perspective. Many others would judge them harshly for paying "the going rate" or even for doing p4p.

To me it is simply a case of one "John" calling another "John" blacker.

As I wrote before I generally pay 1500 LT in Thailand while I know most ladies I went with would be satisfied with 1000. That is just my personal choice, but I do not feel morally better than for instance THAICAM who negotiates a lower amount. To me we are both paying money for sexual services, not something highly moral in my book anyway.

 

[The fish guy]

Equal opportunity employment

 

[FOB]

You appear to be confusing issues here..

thaicam is getting shit of BM's more for his attitude and condescending tone than anything.. The 300 baht thing is just one way people are putting him down based on previous assessment of how he interacts IMO.

So TC aside.. Your arguments still seem confused.. You yourself say that you wouldnt want to barter down to 500.. That you doubt the lady would be happy.. That it may negatively effect the outcome.. You make your own reasons for not wanting to do it.. Then at the same time claim its all the same..

I am saying that I dont think it is all karmically the same.. Higher reward makes for a happier person receiving it.. Happier person equals a higher karmic balance in your favor.. Being a cheap charlie and bartering to the lowest possible amount that a person in desperate need of money will take is not morally the same. I find it hard to imagine how anyone could think it is.

 

[Polexia owns your SOUL]

YEP yep, the last piece in the puzzle ,

 

[Wally West]

No Diz it is not, read my post again, I said if it went to 10k then peaole would either go elsewhere, as in country destination for their holiday or would not partake. I never mentioned nor implied anything towards Thaicam and wish people could drop this continual reference to him.

I mentioned that if one offered 1 bht then it would be generally considered an insult and way below the average. Only used 1bht as an example to pass my point To Cotam that of course there is an average/acceptable low/ going rate, never made a comment regarding 300bht or any other amount.

 

[Ella]

More a case of show me a beer bar that does have current cards on all thier staff.. I would say they are in the vast minority.



I would say shes lieing.

 

[Queenie]

What you say is fascinating. May have to brush up on my Spanish! For the amount of time I have spent in LOS, and effort learning to speak a fairly meager amount of Thai, it would be hard to close the book on LOS, and the facts that I love Thai food and traditional Thai massage are no small considerations, either.

However, also considering that my costs in LOS have approx. doubled in 6 years, and these Isaan girls, with their new houses or house additions, and their $300+ monthly payments on their Toyota Hilux trucks, etc., are becoming awfully spoiled. And on top of having to compete with guys who are nearly half my age, I am competing with guys whose currencies have appreciated 10% against the Baht, while the once-proud, but now-humbled dollar has sunk a full 33% against the Baht. That sure is a lot of changes in 6 yrs, and none for the better. Which has caused me to have to relocate my tours from Phuket to Pattaya to a large extent, which is in most respects, a bit of a downgrade, except for the fact that I can pull better-looking girls in Pattaya.

A buddy of mine just signed a 2-yr contract for a job in Caracas, so I may be headed south of the border next year for a South American tour. Still I have a soft spot in my heart for LOS, so I just don't know what I'll do. Seems as if I should at least give SA a try!!

 

[omgxxxshoes]

MTB check all the girls medical cards and record them.

But generally this practise has fallen into slack times, as girls are so transient this time of year, many bars are just desperate for the girls to work for them and with everything else that is going on it has fallen from main focus, I think.

 

[Angeliyah]

CLASSIC.....:rofl:

 

[Jena]

300 Baht......Isn't that what Thaicam likes to pay!!!! sorry Dodge couldn't resist :intello:

 

[SG Brittanys]

Good and as it should!

But I hope nobody is going to claim that all bars on Soi Bangla are not checking except MTB.

 

[I bet i can do it]

Central America has always fascinated me...especially Costa Rica and the "Ticas" they call them there. Anyone ever been?

:: Welcome to Costa Rica Ticas ::

 

[WINGATE14]

Thought you had decided not to discuss any thing with me because I asked you a simpl question you couldn't answer???

Wonder if anyone thinks calling 'john' blacker is a racist comment????

 

[Medic]

One Bar Girl friend of ours was telling us the other night that a customer wanted to pay only 500bht because he had to pay 1000bht joiner fee. He didn't seem to understand that it was his problem and not the girls as he kept insisting that it was costing him 1500bht for short time. The BG told him it was his problem and walked away from him. I think she did the right thing but obviously there are enough slim ball mongers out there tying there best to get their rocks off for f.uck all money.

 

[sunray]

There are some great places in Cenral/South America for the p4p scene. I have to agree Argentina, especially Buenos Aires is a great place, we went drinking in a place called Recoletta and it took us a few minutes to realise that every girl in this bar was a working girl..... Great times. There is a website eforum.xxx that has extensive listings and a great help to anyone going there. Brazil also has a great choice... But these days alot of them actually head to Europe where there is more money for them.

The Dutch Antilles are my favourite behind LOS though. South American ladies get the chance to work on these islands with a 3 month visa. One of the islands has an old army base that is turned into a camp full of ladies... Just picture Butlins, with every chalet occupied by a lovely lady wanting you for around $30-$40 USD.

Was recently in Odessa, Ukraine and the price there has skyrocketed compared to 2 years ago.

I could go on but will stop...

 

[Lisa G]

I would say the vast majority are not 100% with the current books.. Its a case of if a girl has one anyway then ok sure.. if she doesnt so what..

Any bar owners know that a girl that does have HIV can simply pay 500 baht at a well known (name withheld) clinic and get a clean book. The system means nothing.

 

[Wrestles4Food]

It's hard to imagine there are many of us who would feel guilty about the P4P aspect of things. Any church-going Catholics on this board?

However, some may be deluded about their relationship with BGs and like to imagine it is a normal relationship.

But for many, including me, it is not so much a case of delusion as a case of illusion. Because, if it were not for the illusion, then why would so many of us go to LOS to play the game, when there are so many other places we could go? I assert that it is the aspect of illusion that makes the P4P scene in LOS so attractive. Where else can you spend a whole evening just like it was a real date of the sort like where you came from, then spend the night, have sex, cuddle, sleep together, have a pleasant, affectionate wake-up w/ a lovely girl in the AM, which may or may not include more sex, then dress and go to breakfast or lunch, and, perhaps the beach, as well, or a day trip, if you're up for it. All for 1,000 Baht(or 1500 or 2000, etc., whatever suits your budget).

It is the illusion that makes it all so wonderful. When the illusion is broken, and it just becomes P4P, then I'll be taking my business down to the ST girls for 500 Baht, and save a few 1000 per day on all the expenses involved with making it a fun experience for yourself and the girl, and maintaining a lovely illusion.

Keeping the price down to 1000 helps keep the illusion intact. Although, frankly, if a monger has a one-night rule in effect, and never intends to spend more than one or two nights with a gal, then he ought to pay her 1500 or more. IMHO, going with a different guy every night, and every night not knowing whether she will have business that night, is a lot more wear and tear on a girl, than going with the same guy for a week or two or more, when the income is then reliable, and she can relax a bit more, pretty much knowing what the evening will include. If a guy takes 2 girls on 2 nights, then has a night off, it costs him 3000 at 1500/night. A lot of guys, if not most, would just as soon have a couple nights off a week. But if you don't want to lose your "date" to another punter, and want to maintain the temporary BF/GF illusion aspect of the experience, then you have to take her every night, so your cost for 3 nights is 3000, same as the guy who had a day to recoup his energies(and budget).

I would imagine that makes sense to some and not at all to others, but, regardless, I think there are a lot of guys who like the non-P4P, faux "dating" aspect that is readily available in the LOS bar scene, and even preferred by some of the girls, since it makes them feel a lot less like wh0res, even if they are, by most people's definition.

I will grant you that when the illusion crosses the line into the realm of delusion, and a guy starts believing it is all real, then problems may arise. Or not, because they might end up deciding to get married. Marriage! Hah!! Now there is a real delusion, but don't get me started, and that applies probably double if your bride is a farang!! :intello:

P.S. While thinking of the delusion aspect of things, I can't help but recall the night I spent with a BG last winter, when all night long she kept on saying, "I love you! Do you love me? I love you. Do you love me?" ad infinitum. She was so drunk that it was all I could do to keep her from falling off the motorcycle on the way to my room. When we got there, I got off the bike, and she sat there, eyes closed, half-asleep, hugging the driver, who was as embarrassed as hell. She passed out as soon as her head hit the bed, but woke up a hour later, apparently madly in love with me! The rest of the night was pretty wild, and there was precious little more sleep gotten by either of us that night! mg:

 

[JamesHenderson]

It's up to her and she can do as she pleases. If he only wants to offer 500, that's up to him. When I joined this Board(4 yrs. ago, IIRC), 500 was the going rate for ST and anyone here told you were paying over the top if you paid more.

Is 1000 the going ST rate now? I still only pay 500, except in BKK. In Phuket, I just don't do ST, and in Pattaya, if I want ST, I go down to the beach. Actually, sometimes it is a relief to go see the girls there, as there is very little, if any, drop-off in quality from the beer bars girls, and it is a no-bargaining, no hassle experience. No drinks to buy, no BF to pay, no nonsense at all. Very polite girls, and I have been treated well by them. Why anyone would go to a beer bar to hook up for ST is something I'll never understand. I prefer LT, and even something ongoing, when I can find a girl who suits my tastes and we get along well, but for a ST, why pay 2000 or more(once you add in the drinks and BF), when it is an easier and more relaxing experience with a ST beach girl, and only 500. If I want to drink with her, we can stop at 7/11 for a 6-pack on the way, if I don't already have one in the fridge!

 

[bluePumpkin]

I go to LOS for the cheap socks: Oh yeah and those wooden frogs kick ass.