TJ Cops are the scumbags and getting worse

[Pompal 09.]

I agree completely with MikeDude.

 

[ano]

p9[uinouhio

 

[beckerman2013]

I lived in SD for several years and end up in TJ still twice a year at least. I agree with all the folks who responded.

I have been hassled one time, they searched me on the side of the road but let me go with out much trouble. I wouldn’t think of driving my car down there- this is increasing your surface area. Spend the 10 bucks round trip and take a cab. I hope to see you all there!

 

[Ponz]

I am due for another trip too TJ. I have not been there in 6 months. But what I can tell you is I recommend if you go too the Red light sections have a taxi drive you around. Even from bar too bar. The last 3 times I have been there I was harassed and searched by the cops. When I am on vaction I do not like being treated like a criminal. TJ is awesome. The people are great but the Cops are what ruins my trip. I have never been there at night time after 6pm. Usually I am out of there by 5pm. Maybe night time is better too go.

 

[Sun]

I've been going to TJ for 45 years. Most of what Burt2020 says is true and is good advice. I live in the San Diego area and, as you would imagine, there is a huge problem with the organized drug dealers in TJ (and Mexico, in general). Law enforcement on both sides of the border work closely together to fight it. But, of course, it goes on; it's an uphill battle. Law enforcement in Mexico isn't generally a bunch of dimwits and crooks, although some are, just as you would find anywhere else.

There are corrupt police on both sides of the border, more so in Mexico for the reasons stated in these threads. One other thing to consider that I haven't seen mentioned: Under Mexican law, a person is presumed guilty until they prove they are innocent. They often are imprisoned while waiting for the trial to prove they are innocent. It's a different country than ours with different laws and different customs.

But Mexico is also like all other countries of the world: they want and like tourist dollars. There are many here who have posted the most basic advice to ensure an incident-free trip to TJ: Don't do anything, right or wrong, that would draw attention to yourself. I've gone many, many times by myself. I've never had a problem in TJ. I don't take chances at night. If I am by myself, I sometimes hang close to a group of others so it appears that I'm with them, if the situation requires. That makes it a little safer.

I've read about some really bad experiences in this forum. But there are tons of people who never have a problem in Mexico. I've seen some really Ugly Americans down there who should have been thrown in jail, but weren't. Life's a risk, but common sense greatly reduces that risk. If you don't want to take the risk, go someplace else. Ain't freedom of choice great!!

 

[Stefan V]

I'm not defending what the cops did. Nor did I say they were doing you a favor by taking your $100.00.

What I said was many cops view taking a bribe when somebody breaks the law as being somewhat akin to a tip for good service. That is the way Mexican culture traditionally views taking a bribe. I'm not defending it; just explaining the mind set. BTW, you overpaid. $20.00 should cover most traffic offenses.

Your friend gave you good advice. I posted something similar. In the thread “set up in tijuana!” on 9-13-2005 under the heading of "tickets" I wrote:

Within certain areas that are close to the boarder--including Tijuana--the cops are required to give you a ticket which you may pay by mail.

In the interior of Mexico they can take the plates off your car to insure you go to the police station and pay your fine. But not in Tijuana.

Don't be afraid to stand your ground and respectfully refuse to go to the police station over a traffic ticket. The cop will eventually either write you a ticket or more likely let you go. (Especially if it was a bogus stop.)

Bribing a cop is illegal. So it is safer to let him ask you for money. If you must offer a cop a bribe then say something like, "can I pay to fine to you so I don't have to go to court?"

Rather than defending the cops and corruption, I'm trying to get people to stand their ground when faced with extortion attempts. Also to report corrupt cops.

It should, I believe, be very clear if you examine the history of my posts that I (generally) oppose paying bribes and encourage people to report corrupt cops. I've even posted about how to report corrupt cops. (It is far better to contact Internal Affairs than the precinct where they work.) I am, however, having trouble getting some people on this site to accept that advice.

 

[Shafiq]

I really think the only defense against the corrupt cops in Tj is going in a group. There is definitely strength in numbers. These coward cops won't touch you if you are in a group. The bottome line is, we have to realize that we are visiting a poor(relatively speaking) country with a culture of long history of corruption top to bottom, and that it's a risk we have to be willing to take when entering this territory south of the border. Probably I need to buy a cheap clunker with no tinted windows just for the times I need to go to TJ.

 

[niki]

Burt2020, you seem to be defending TJ cops with misleading statements. However, I don't want you to mislead the people that you are perfectly fine as long as you don't drive in TJ and keep low profile without breaking the local laws. All the posts here on mpnet in regards to run-ins with TJ cop have nothing to do with breaking the law. Many were stopped and shaken down while walking, and many were even set up for drug possession(classic tactic of putting a bag of drug in your pocket while pocket searching).
You said I broke the law by driving a car with tinted windows and the TJ cops actually did me a "favor" by accepting $ 100 and not taking me to the court to see the judge. Wow, I couldn't help but laugh for 5 minutes after reading this statement.
Let me give you a more detailed story of what happened that night.
After the cop explained to me that it was illegal to have tinted windows in TJ, I looked around and saw more than half the cars(parked and moving) have dark tinted windows(both local and US plates). I asked the cop, "what about them?" and the cop replied "It's you today." Burt2020 I know you call this selective enforcement. And you also call this "They are doing their job." and I shouldn't complain. What a joke.
After the incident, I talked to this Mexican American fellow at the parking lot and he said the cops can't take you to the court for having tinted windows. Instead they are supposed to give you a ticket on the spot and it only costs about $10 dollars.
I think Burt2020 is really confused between corruption and doing a job. If the cops were doing their job, they would have given me a ticket instead of threatening with bogus stories of seeing the judge, pay $200 and potential stay in the jail for up to 36 hours. Stop downplaying the corruption of TJ cops. State the correct facts or keep quiet.
Also, speaking of alleged ongoing efforts to clean up corruption in TJ as you have stated, I have to completely disagree with you. I think it's even getting worse. After the incident, I walked up to the police station located in front of the Alley, and talked to one of the officers. I told him exactly what just took place and even told him the ID number(P3018) of the corrupt cops. His attitude was complete indifference so I just gave up and walked away.

 

[xray_man69]

Com'on guys. Why try to learn the whole Mexican laws when your transaction in TJ involves simply paying money for the fun and your stay is usually less than a day? Unless you are trying to start a business or establish a permament residency, I see no reason to dig into Mexican penal codes. My common sense would serve me well in TJ. A diamond is treated as diamond everywhere, a good citizen is a good citizen in any country - 99% of the time.

 

[Pompal 09.]

I'm not surprised that your Swiss army knife either falls into a grey area or outside the law. One of the problems with the "bribery system" of law enforcement is that it encourages cops to be ultra technical. Or worse.

In all honesty, the Zona Norte and the border are the worst places I've found to encounter Tijuana cops. That is where corruptions flourishes.

In many parts of Mexico (even some parts of Tijuana) these problems are much less common. As are other problems like the cab and waiter tourist scams.

Sadly, wherever you find a lot of money (tourists) you find a much higher incident of problems. So things are worse in TJ than many places in Mexico.

Mexico is way behind the US in many things. In Tombstone, Wyatt Eyrp considered himself a business man. He became a Marshall so he could carry a gun--helpful in protecting his solon. (Tombstone had gun control. Only cops could legally carry a gun.) All too many TJ cops see themselves as businessmen first and 'lawmen' second. Sadly, there are times their gun and badge do enable them to make a profit.

Not allowing knives--even small ones--in the Zona is ultimately a good things. However, I must confess you were treated harshly--which often happens when cops smell money. The chances are that if you were an experienced TJ monger who spoke some Spanish the cop would have let you go with a lecture or a very small bribe.

One of the great problems with the "bribery system" is the selective enforcement that it creates. Which is injustice by definition, but Mexico is too "behind the times" to see that yet.

---------

The point I tried to make many post ago is that--contrary to what many believe--the cops in Tijuana aren't usually outright bandits. They don't usually "rape and rob" tourists on site. Rather, they play by a set of rules. They are in the business of enforcing the law and making a peso in the process. (As I've tried to explain, Mexican culture doesn't see that as being improper.)

While in TJ in essence you are playing a game something like football. (Their game is also a rough one in which people get hurt.) Cops look for petty violations of the law, stretch legal definitions, etc. and consider that as doing their duty. (It's something akin to "ringing a quarmassageplanet.netack's bell" being the duty of the defense in football.) If you don't know how the game is played you probably will lose big time. (Which is why I advise people to respectfully stand up to the cops when they didn't break the law and negotiate the best deal possible when they are in the wrong.) Out and out robbery is rare, but not non-existent. Usually people are "mugged" within the rules of the game: something they did can be interrupted as being illegal and a cop tries to "earn his salary."

 

[obitdude2]

Nevermore...don't you know a typo when you see it? (McDude, McDuke--honestly.)

The fact the cops got nervous when Mr. McDonald (opps) started looking at their ID after they accepted his bribe is because they know full well what could happen to them had he gone to the police station and reported them.

While it is part of accepted tradition for a cop to take a bribe when somebody has broken the law (and nobody was hurt in the process) it is also illegal. Once upon a time nobody cared. That is changing. It is why the cops were scared when he wanted to see their ID.

Please re-read his post about what happened in the sub-station when he reported some bad cops. Also, the account I re-posted from another board. As I say, corruption still exists, but isn't tolerated to the extent it was once upon a time.

I stated, The laws and culture in Mexico are different than in the US. I find if you don't violate either the law or cultural mores you are generally safe. I stand by that statement.

Are you aware there were over 56 million border crossings last year at San Ysidro alone? How many tourists do you think had problems when they were in TJ? I don't think saying that if you obey the law you are generally safe in TJ is in any way untrue. Twice in my life I have been a passenger in a car that was in an accident. I think, however, it is truthful to say that I am generally safe while riding in an automobile driven by others. (Generally doesn't mean never. It means something that doesn't happen regularly.)

 

[djc1175]

A statment of opinion made by somebody obviously without any experince in the matter.


An erroneous statement presented as fact by somebody who doesn't know what the facts are.

Please read the account I posted above by a man who took the trouble to fight back. Internal affairs does care. It is not staffed by cops from the same precinct. You should also re-read Mr. McDudes account of what happened when he reported some bad cops to the people in charge at the local sub-station.

The situation is complex. There are those who don't want things to change. Many are the old time rank and file cops. There are others, however, who want things to change.

Vicent Fox (the former CEO of Coca Cola in Mexico) became president because finally a majority of Mexicans wanted to change the corrupt ways of the PRI and voted--the first time ever--to elect the candidate of an opposition party (the PAN). Jorge Hank, the current mayor of Tijuana is without a doubt a very "colorful individual." He is also the owner of the Pueblo Amigo Hotel and other enterprises dependent on tourism.

There are many people in Mexico who realize that Mexico must end corruption to cease being a third world country. They are trying to end it. Often they are in positions to appoint the top police officals. Which is why you usually safer at the police station--which is probably staffed with reformers--than in the back seat of a police car.

In the post by Mr. McDude he describes what happened when he went to the police sub-station. And the reaction of the bad cops who had to face him. I reposted the account (from another board) of what happened when somebody who in the past 30 days went to Internal Affairs. A prior post of mine references a recent newspaper account of corrupt TJ cops being fired. As I say, there are those who are trying to end centuries of corruption.

Progess is being made. It is being done slowly and with difficulty. (The mere fact that somebody other than a PRI candidate could be elected is in and of itself a sign of progress. The article I referenced about cops "resigning" dueing a bribery investigation is another proof that things are changing.) That doesn't mean that there aren't those clinging to the old ways and that corruption has been eraticated--but progess is being made in that direction.

 

[TimeWarp]

Burt, thank you for your complete, thoughtful response. I've cut a major portion for the sake of brevity, but there are a few things I wanted to address.



No, thank you. Mexico can do as it pleases in its country, but in MY country I'm quite willing to sacrifice a little in terms of speed to the extent necessary to achieve due process -- in both criminal and civil matters. I agree that American lawyers are too expensive, but that's a different topic for a different day.

Of course, we HAVE benefited from adopting Mexican practices in some areas (e.g. Community Property), but that too is a different topic for a different day.



Some people will obey the law if they know about it, others won't. My idea isn't based on whether it is "natural" for people to obey the law -- it's based on the idea that the number of people who will obey the law if informed is greater than the number of people who will be punnished if they don't obey the law due to ignorance. It is also based on the idea that people should have a reasonable opportunity to obey the law before being punnished for breaking it.

I find it a bit ironic that Mexicans seem to have adopted the same steriotype reguarding eachother (i.e. that Mexicans, as a group, are dishonest people) that many Americans have about Mexicans.



Since the use of extortion as a law enforcment tactic chills tourism, it probably costs more than it saves.



Personally, I would prefer to avoid learning the "hard way," if possible, as I found getting arrested in Mexico to be a rather unplesant experience.

To that end I've been able to locate a copy of the Mexican Federal Penal Code at http://www.cddhcu.gob.mx/leyinfo/pdf/9.pdf. It will take time to review, especially given my limited vocabulary. It appears that the law I allegidly broke is found in Article 160 and/or 162. It also appears that my Swiss Army Knife does not meet the legal definition of "weapon" in Mexico, as it has a work-related use. My research continues.

 

[AMiR]

VShan05…you asked some good questions. Also, you seem interested in discussing things in an intelligent, mature manner (something perhaps I haven’t been doing) which I feel merits a thoughtful reply. This will be long, but I’ll try to answer your questions and give you the response I feel your post merits.


I agree. I doubt there is anyplace in the world where the poor and rich have equal justice. (The price of competent legal counsel makes that a practical impossibility in the US.) What I posted was: “Which, perhaps, is their way of seeing there is equal justice for the rich and poor. Also, that justice is swift and sure.” That perhaps didn’t express my thoughts as well as it should have. Many legal systems have idealistic goals, such as equal justice and swift justice, which are not necessarily achieved. I was referring to a simple system in which lawyers are not involved to the extent they are in the US as being an idealistic way of seeing that all have swift, equal justice. In the US (witness the OJ trial) the outcome is highly dependent on the attorney. That is also true in Mexico, but not to the extent it is in the US. In the US lawsuits drag on for years, they are swifter in Mexico as Mexico has a simpler system. (The lack of punitive damages, pain and suffering awards, etc. reduces litigation and most suits are settled outside of court.) In the US the police can hold you 72 hours in jail before you are arraigned before a judge. In Mexico the cops have to take you before a judge (they are on duty 24 hours a day in TJ) before they can put you in jail. If swiftness is a component of justice then the US system could honestly benefit by adopting a few Mexican practices.


You are hopefully right. Your idea, however, is based on the concept that the natural order of things is for people to willingly obey the law. Maybe you're right, but maybe you're wrong in that premise.

Now let me give you a more pragmatic response. First, it would take money—which Mexico lacks—for the informational campaign you postulate. (Remember, there are people living in many parts of Mexico, including Tijuana, that lack running water.) It is a luxury they can’t afford. Second, they probably feel it wouldn’t do any good. They are more of the mindset that if people can get away with breaking the law they will. Hence they’d probably be skeptical of your assertion that if they tell you not do something that you’ll comply. If you think about it, that is a pessimistic, but not unreasonable, view of human nature.


It is clearly his safest and easiest tactic. However, a person can also inform himself about laws and customs of other countries reducing his risk of encountering problems abroad. He can (collectively) have has nation pressure another nation to change it’s laws and practices.


No it doesn’t. However Mexican corruption reminds me somewhat of pre 1960s northern racial segregation practices in the US. It was tolerated without being legally sanctioned. Things are changing in Mexico. Perhaps the US civil rights movement is a good example. There are people who want Mexico to change (Vicente Fox, Mexico’s president, is one of them) while there are others who cling to the old ways. This is very true in law enforcement. Many of the leaders are trying hard to stamp out corruption, but others are content to let things remain as they’ve always been.





You assessment of what I was trying to say is correct: those who enter a foreign county are under the obligation of learning and complying with its laws and customs. How does one learn about Mexican law and culture? You’re right, about it taking effort. You do what you’re doing now: you seek out information. Also, you realize that sometimes you learn the hard way. (A lot of what I’ve learned has come through the school of “hard knocks.”) Sometimes one needs a philosophical viewpoint. It is sort of like falling off a bike. One realizes that the learning process involves some misadventures (like falls and skinned knees when learning to ride a bike) so one tries to realize that getting clipped by the cops (for example) isn’t a life-long tragedy nor will it ruin one financially. One simply gets “back on his bike” following a misadventure.


If it makes you feel better, I still have problems in Mexico. (Like the night a cop who is a good buddy of my (then) girlfriend’s ex-husband saw us together.) I’ve tried to adopt a philosophic attitude as I described above. It helps me—sometimes.

I’ve also put in my time and paid some dues to gain whatever I know about Mexico. (I wish I knew half of what you kindly ascribe to me.) Anyway, here is my story.

I’m Anglo and grew up with a desire to travel. My extended family has an interest in travel, history, anthropology, law, etc. (I’m related to a shrink and attorney.) In my college years I spent a year in South America studying all sorts of things that have no marketable value. That, of course, helped me learn Spanish better than most tourists. I live in So-Cal and go to Mexico frequently. I was in a relationship with a girl in TJ that lasted a couple of years. (She moved out, but I still have the apartment we used to share.) Her father was at one time a minor official in the PRI (Mexico’s largest and most corrupt political party.) Over time I’ve made friends with a number of locals. Reading the Sunday newspaper, interacting with locals (I now have a couple of acquaintances in TJ who are attorneys) and spending my weekends in Mexico has over the years—I hope—helped me learn something.

When I’m not dating local girls, I monger actively in Tijuana. I’m a moderator on TJ Amigos (the largest Tijuana mongering board) and spend time on some other Mexico related boards. Reading posts on TJ Amigos has helped me tremendously in keeping my finger on the pulse of what is happening in TJ. It has a lot of guys who know TJ well and are willing to share what they know. I’ve also come to know some “Yankees in exile” (many are married to Mexican girls) who, together with my Mexican friends, have been very helpful. They know far more about Tijuana than I do and share their knowledge. (I tried to return the favor by posting the “Newbie Guide to Tijuana” that is found in the TJ Amigos FAQ forum at www dot tjamigos dot com. I am not, however, saying it fulfills your request for an “authoritative source” on such matter.)

After spending years visiting Mexico I still occasionally have problems. Perhaps I’ve learned to take them in stride—although when you hear me “talking” about a “frustrating situation” you’d never believe I’m the guy who posts about the importance of having a cultural perceptive.

I honestly hope you come to enjoy Tijuana. If you don’t do drugs; treat the locals (including cops) with respect; don’t get drunk, fight, urinate in public, etc. my experience is you seldom have problems. When you do they can be solved with greenbacks.


Essay on Cultures and Corruption:
Different cultures have different values and ways of doing things. Should a legal system be based on deterring crime through education (the concept expressed above about simply informing tourists not to carry knives) or is that a futile goal? US culture believes in the inherent goodness of man and so it often tries to prevent crime through education. (Witness the “Just say No to Drugs” campaign.) The US system also has a goal of rehabilitation. Other countries have different viewpoints. Some, for example, believe that justice is based on an “eye for an eye” and view the way we treat criminals as an injustice. They also are pessimistic about human nature. Some believe “education” a waste of time and believe that only swift, harsh punishment keeps crime in check.

As societies become richer they have they can afford complex legal and governmental systems. Take the idea of conscription for military service—which the US is now rich enough to have abandoned. During the Viet Nam war years, the US had draft boards and a complex system for deciding who was drafted and who wasn’t. In some Latin American counties the draft is based upon the old press gang. They hit the bars, discos and other places men congregate and round them up. For the next x number of years those unluckily enough to have been caught are in the army.

Today we would look with horror on such a system, although press gangs are a part of our historical herieforum.xxxe. Yet, when all is said and done, has a man lost more liberty because his conscription resulted from a press gang than a lottery? The point I’m trying to make is that methodology does not necessary determine “justice.”

Notice also that the US has a long history of harshness in the actions of law enforcement. Try speeding in a small town. I remember once getting a ticket for going 27mph in a 25 mph zone. There are/were small towns where the cop would take you before a justice of the peace who would fine you. You didn’t get an attorney and couldn’t leave (you were kept in jail if necessary) until you paid your fine. While it wasn’t popular, it was legal and culturally acceptable. We only complained if the cop framed somebody, eg. arrested somebody for doing 30 mph when he was really doing 25 mph. (The concept of “dirt graft” in Mexico today.)

In many things Mexico is “behind” the US. This includes being able to afford a complex legal system and pay cops a living wage.

We are used to a system in which separates administrative (law enforcement) activities from judical activity. The cop arrests us, we then—at a later date—go before a judge. Often we include the additional expense of having attorneys speak for the cop and defendant. (Who in reality are able to speak for themselves and actually more familiar with the situation.) If guilty, we then pay a fine. The fine pays the salary of the cop, judge, etc. If there is a shortfall the taxpayers cover the deficiency. Since that is our system we are comfortable with it.

Now let’s examine a few goals of our system:
--To catch those who break the law
--To punish lawbreakers. (Although in the US many go free on technicalities.)
--To base fines on the ability to pay.

In it’s own weird way, the Mexican system (used “as designed”) also accomplishes these goals. As long as the cops don’t frame somebody, only the guilty are “punished.” The “fine” is based on the criminal’s ability to pay. Of course, their de facto system is simpler, more informal, and requires less taxpayer expense, that the US system. The cop in effect is also the judge and the fine is paid in the form of a bribe. However, if you step back and look at the forest instead of the trees it accomplished the goal of catching, penalizing, and (possibility) deterring criminals.

If you can step outside your culture, then you should be able to see that the Mexican system ultimately has similar goals to the US system. Their system, of course, use different methods—methods (like bribery) that our culture views as being corrupt. However, if you understand what I’m trying to say then will see their system as a different route to the same destination.

If you can understand the points I’m trying to make then you will also understand why in Mexico there is tolerance, not onus, for “clean graft.” How their system is a simpler, less expensive attempt to catch, punish, and deter criminals—albeit a corrupt one. Sadly, either I haven’t been able to explain this cultural viewpoint to others on this board or they are unable/unwilling to step back, and look at the forest (not the trees) through the eyes of another culture. Most people on this board totally miss the point I’m trying to make.

I’m not saying the Mexican system is superior to the US system. Nor am I saying it isn’t corrupt. I will say that I’ve spent enough time in Mexico to understand the cultural difference between “clean graft” and “dirty graft.” Also I’m “culturally broad minded” enough to believe having somebody who breaks the law pay a cop a bribe (instead of a judge a fine) isn’t an earthshaking injustice and how to some degree it deters crime. After all, the guilty party was punished while others are unlikely to engage in unlawful activity whether their conducts results in paying a fine or a bribe. I realize, of course, others have different opinions—or don’t understand the point I’m trying to make.

 

[Positive Rodent]

Burt2020 seems intent on fabricating statements I never made. Who knows what else he fabricated? I believe cops in TJ are "scumbags" because they are corrupt, not because they stopped MikeDude (where did "McDuke" come from?) for driving with tinted windows. In MikeDude's tinted window story, it was the fact that the cops were going to haul him in for looking at his ID that brought my comments. The cop already took the $100 bribe, and MikeDude was lucky he talked his way out of that situation. The cop correctly believed MikeDude would leave TJ that night without reporting the incident. Yes, that makes them scumbags.

Obviously the above second quote is not true. Many here have already advised, including Burt2020, that the cops will pick people up in order to shake you down. He confessed it even happened to him. Next time he might not be so lucky when he stands up to them. These corrupt cops will eventually do what all rats do when cornered.

 

[cricketlady]

The facts in the above case are slightly wrong. The gun was a personal weapon of the Marine, who forgot it was in his car. (It was the gun he used on a rifle team of which he was a member.) He was not carrying a weapon as part of his official duties. He was, however, in uniform and on duty. He was sent by a superior officer—using his own car—to pick up another Marine who was being released from Mexican custody to US authorities. (He’d gone to Mexico, got drunk, and got into trouble.) There are signs warning people not to take guns to Mexico. The Marine simply forget his target rile was in the car.

Most countries in the world base their legal system on either the Anglo-Saxon (English) system of laws or the Napoleonic system. In the English system a person is innocent until proven guilty. In the Napoleonic system a person is (legally) guilty until he proves himself innocent. In the English system intent is needed to commit a crime. In the Napoleonic system intent is not a requirement to commit a crime.

Suppose you drive a car across an international boundary and—unknown to you—somebody hides drugs in the car which they plan on retrieving by stealing your car. In the English system you are not guilty as you had no intention to smuggle drugs. In the Napoleonic system you are guilty as you illegally brought drugs into the country.

Mexico’s legal system is based on the Napoleonic code. More countries in the world use the Napoleonic system than the English system. It is a harsher system, but the line between what is legal and illegal is far more clear than in the English system.

Under the Napoleonic system there is no such thing a “simple mistake.” Your action is either legal or illegal. End of story. The Marine was set free as a goodwill gesture, not because he was innocent. In the above case, under pressure from US officials Mexico gave up its sovereign right to base its legal system on the Napoleonic system.

The treatment the Marine received was harsh, but totally legal. (I am glad the US uses the Anglo-Saxon system of jurisdprudance. But that doesn't mean Mexico has to use it.) I've also spent enough time in Tijuana to know that Mexicans can also point out examples of our border officals acting harshly and not cutting somebody a break when due to a "simple mistake" somebody breaks our border crossing laws. (Like the current mayor of Tijuana who got into serious trouble because he was carrying over $10,000.00 when he crossed the border. He owns the Pueblo Amigo Hotel, Calientes race track, etc. Mexico is a cash society and he carries large sums of money because he has major bills to pay. He apparently didn't know about the limit of cash he could bring into the US or didn't know how much cash he had in his pocket. He too was arrested and detained for a simple mistake.)

 

[answer man]

I would think there isn't much interest in fixing TJ's age old police corruption problem. I mean if they really wanted to do it all they would have to do is have a few gringo looking Mexicans who speak perfect english drive around with US plates with video survailence and sting all cops who stop them and demand bribes.

They don't give a shit! In our country look how hard it is to stop police abuse. Rodney King gets his ass kicked for the whole world to see and they have an excuse for that too. Their "Internal Affairs" unit is staffed by police officers from the same precinct they are appointed by the chief to supervise and investigate. Kind of the fox watching the chicken house. What a joke!!!

 

[Gerik]

Vshan05 makes a good point. While "common sense" should apply, it hasn't applied in several of the posts by those who were mugged by TJ cops, nor has it applied with some of the more obscure laws they arbitrarily choose to enforce. Perhaps the TJ cops haven't ended their "wild west" herieforum.xxxe Mexico shares with a few western US states.

In those cases, it appears the only way to save yourself is to go in numbers AND to take a taxi from the entrance at the border to the Zona Norte and one back to the door to the border crossing without stopping anywhere else. Arming yourself with all the information you can find from those websites will hopefully keep you out of trouble with the obscure law category. Perhaps going with a knowledgeable TJ veteran in the meantime would be useful as well.

 

[catchinkiki]

"Common sense" is a useful tool in any situation, whether in your own country or a foreign one, but I don't think it is wise to rely exclusively on "common sense" when in another country. That was one of my mistakes. A person's "common sense" is a product of his own experiences. Since my personal experiences likely differ somewhat from those of the people of Mexico, their "common sense" will likely differ from mine in certain important respects.

For example, a Swiss Army Knife is designed to be used as a tool, rather than a weapon. One can use it to open bottles and cans, file their nails, cut paper, open boxes, and so-fourth. It would be nearly useless in a bar fight because it takes too long to retract the blade -- you're better off with a beer bottle. The Mexican Government can choose to characterise a Swiss Army Knife as a "weapon," but reasonable minds can differ on that issue. It is a judgment that is not necessarily mandated by "common sense."

Learning about Mexican law seems like a much better course of action than relying exclusively on "common sense."

I've looked at the U.S. Consulate's website, and it provides a wealth of information, which I'm in the process fo reviewing. Specifically, I've found the following links particularly helpful:

http://www.discoverbajacalifornia.com/home.htm
http://www.tijuana.gob.mx/Turismo/TouristGuide/English/index.asp
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

Does anyone have any other suggustions of places I can go to learn more about Mexican law?

 

[jonneyswife1]

Well said. I agree.

My experince also is the US is more tolerent towards weapons than most of the rest of the world. (Most place don't have a Second Admendment right, nor a "West West" herieforum.xxxe so they are alarmed at people being armed with any type of weapon.)