TJ Cops are the scumbags and getting worse

[brendan y.]

Mr. McDuke reported being stopped by the cops in Tijuana for driving a car with tinted windows. He and Nevermore think that is simply because the cops are "scumbags." I'm not saying there aren't corrupt cops in TJ because there are, but what I'm saying is that many tourist think the cops are corrupt when they are acutally only doing their job.

The September 26, 2005 San Diego Union Tribune on page B1 has an article entitled “Tijuana police target tinting of car glass.”

The article is old news to those familar with TJ. It begins by saying:

Tinted car window have a dark connotation in Tijuana, where members of organized crime gangs are known to drive around with pitch-black glass.
In an attempt to make it harder for criminals to operate anonymously, police have stated fining people who have darkened their windows “beyond normal” said the city’s director of public security…

He is also quoted as saying, “All the criminals use tinted glass…The city’s crackdown…applies to tourists and locals alike.” The article fails to state the reason, which is that many drug dealer live in the US and drive cars with US license plates. The article goes on to say this is not a new policy, but that it is now being enforced more vigorously.

I stand by the advice that others found offensive: It is illegal to have tinted windows in Tijuana. Also, one should not drive a car in TJ that is not "street legal." Finally, cops are not corrupt when they enforce the law against tourists.

Yes, I realize Mr. McDude paid the cop a $100.00 to go on his way. As I posted in my thread about clean vs dirty graft, the cop saw himself as doing Mr. McDude a favor. Mr. McDuke broke the law. He was supposed to go to the police station where he would be taken to appear before a judge who would fine him for breaking the law. The cop saved Mr. McDude the time and hassle this involved. To him by taking the $100.00 Mr. McDude offered he saved Mr. McDuke the time and hassel of going to court and paying the fine he should have paid for breaking the law. Mexican culture sees this as being akin to a tip for good service. In Mexican culture the cop was not corrupt because Mr. McDude did broke the law. If, however, Mr. McDude had not broken the law then Mexican culture would view the cop as being corrupt.

I get irritated with people who think Mexico does not have a right to enact and enforce laws that are different than those in the US. Or who don't bother to learn about Mexican laws and then claim they got "jacked" when the cops were only enforcing the laws that are on the books. Many times I find that people who claim they were the victims of a police shakedown were in fact were guilty of breaking the law. (And too ignorant to realize it.)

The laws and culture in Mexico are different than in the US. I find if you don't voilate either the law or cultural mores you are generally safe.

 

[Allie Jane ~]

There is one universal law that all countries abide by --- common sense. I would say that 99% of mongers going to TJ are not familiar with mexican laws. But if you use your common sense -- don't act out of line, don't carry knives, don't get too drunk, keep low profile when in a third world country with different laws and shoddy cops --- you will be fine in TJ.

 

[rakib]

Mr. McDuke reported being stopped by the cops in Tijuana for driving a car with tinted windows. He and Nevermore think that is simply because the cops are "scumbags." I'm not saying there aren't corrupt cops in TJ because there are, but what I'm saying is that many tourist think the cops are corrupt when they are acutally only doing their job.

The September 26, 2005 San Diego Union Tribune on page B1 has an article entitled “Tijuana police target tinting of car glass.”

The article begins by saying:

Tinted car window have a dark connotation in Tijuana, where members of organized crime gangs are known to drive around with pitch-black glass.
In an attempt to make it harder for criminals to operate anonymously, police have stated fining people who have darkened their windows “beyond normal” said the city’s director of public security…

He is also quoted as saying, “All the criminals use tinted glass…The city’s crackdown…applies to tourists and locals alike.” The article fails to state the reason, which is that many drug dealer live in the US and drive cars with US license plates. The article goes on to say this is not a new policy, but that it is now being enforced more vigorously.

I stand by the advice that others found offensive: It is illegal to have tinted windows in Tijuana. Also, one should not drive a car in TJ that is not "street legal." Finally, cops are not corrupt when they enforce the law against tourists.

(Yes, I realize Mr. McDude paid the cop a $100.00 to go on his way. As I posted in my thread about clean vs dirty graft, the cop saw himself as doing Mr. McDude a favor. Mr. McDuke broke the law. He was supposed to go to the police station where he would be taken to appear before a judge who would fine him for breaking the law. The cop saved Mr. McDude the time and hassle this involved. To him by taking the $100.00 Mr. McDude offered he saved Mr. McDuke the time and hassel of going to court and paying the fine he should have paid for breaking the law. Mexican culture sees this as being akin to a tip for good service. In Mexican culture the cop was not corrupt because Mr. McDude did broke the law. If, however, Mr. McDude had not broken the law then Mexican culture would view the cop as being corrupt.)

 

[Pompal 09.]

I've very active on another board that is dedicated to mongering in TJ. Here is a post that, I hope, answers the question of does it do any good to report corrupt cops.
--------------------
Just an update on my orginal post of 27Aug05, when I got jammed up by a few TJ cops by the pedestrian bridge when walking back to cross the border.

The very next day after this happened, I mailed out several letters to many different agencies. Two of them were the American Consulate that is located in Tijuana, and the other was the Mexican department of Tourism. I got replies in about a week and a half. So finally today, 20Sep2005, I met with the deputy director of tourism and the American Consulate also met me at the border, and excorted me to the offices of the Sindicatura. This is like the internal affairs department that has authority over the TJ Police, and the State Police. The officials of the Sindicatura were very interested in exactly where and what happened, and they also provided me with a book of pictures of all of the TJ police, and also got good color pictures of all of the police that were working in the area on the night and time in question. I was able to identify 3 of them by the pictures, and it was verified that they were working in that area that evening. They helped me fill out all of the paperwork, and even had it translated into spanish for me to sign on paper. I'm going to go back next week to identify them face to face so that the process can go on.

But this is the point I wanted to make. In talking to these people, they were genuinely interested and concerned in what actually had transpired that evening. They went out of their way to help me identify the officers in question. They also gave me many suggestions for the future, in case anything like this ever happened again.
1) Try, if possible to get names, car numbers, or badge numbers, and report it right away. You can either call 078 on a mexican phone, or you can simply pick up any mexican phone, for free and dial 066. This will immediately put you through to an emergency desk, they speak english, and it also immediately shows your location if you use a regular land line phone. If you use a cell phone, it will not show your location. They do not yet have that technology installed in Tijuana.

If they threaten to take you to jail, calmly tell them to take you, because you HAVE to go before a judge(municipal official), they have to show cause, before you go to the slammer. Also a police officer is NEVER allowed to take money from you to pay a fine...EVER. If he tries, just go to the local police station, just down the street from Adelitas, and talk to the person in charge. Things will get taken care of real quick. The simple fact is that we bring alot of badly needed money into TJ, and the powers to be, do not want the American tourist to be shaken down by some bottom feeders.

So if you have done nothing wrong, or think the cops are trying to shake you down, you have to make a complaint and be heard. If you never complain and take the time to follow the process, things will never change for the better, and that may be you one day thats laying in the gutter with a bullet behind your ear, or a slash across your neck.
BE HEARD!!!!! Sindicatura website- www.sindicatura.gob.mx

I assure you, if you contact these guys, you will absolutely get results. I was up in their offices today for about 3 hours, and I'm here to tell you, there are some no bullshit, serious people that no regular cop wants to have anything to do with. They can, and do arrest TJ cops as well as the State cops. Good Luck...... more later

 

[Webz]

Having spent many years in the Navy and visiting many foreign countries, you have valid concerns, Shane. It is very smart to try to get a rundown on unusual laws of the country you're going to visit because there can be long prison terms for doing things that aren't a big deal in the U.S.

The best place to get info is from the American Consulate. Their primary website is http://usembassy.state.gov/

At that website you can link to any American Consulate office in the world, and from there, you can find info about the country you plan to visit, their unique laws, and what to do if you get arrested.

My experience with Mexican law is that you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. About 5 years ago there was a big case here in the San Diego area that involved a simple mistake by a U.S. Marine who was on duty and sent to the border to pick up a Marine. He was in uniform. He missed the last U.S. exit and ended up crossing the border, where he was arrested for having a gun (his official weapon). They put him in jail and he was there for several weeks before U.S. congressmen could finally persuade the Mexican authorities to let him go. It was obviously a mistake and unbelievable that it took such a huge effort at the highest levels of government to get it straightened out.

Many countries are guard their laws jealously and don't want to appear to be weak and give in. Know before you go! Good luck.

 

[natural glow]

Guys I have been going to TJ several times a year for 10 yrs.

1. Never have I have I been messed with by the cops.

2. I don't use drugs, or really drink at all.

3. I don't eyefuck (stare at anyone aggressively)

4. Though I am a big muscular mo-f0, I never start or engage in brawls

5. I don't act silly or suspicious arounf the girls or cops

6. I speak some Spanish

Try that at this board would become obselete

 

[Silly Turtle]

I seriously doubt that there's equal justice for rich and poor in Mexico. In fact, my guess would be that Mexico is even more deficient in that area than the United States.

No, I do not believe that the Mexican authorities are obligated to inform incoming American tourists that pocket knives are illegal -- I was merely suggusting that communication would have been a more effective law enforcment tactic than extortion. Eariler, you made the following comment in defense of the police officers' conduct: "I bet he'll never again carry a weapon in TJ." Your point was (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), that the officers' conduct was justified because it is an effective law enforcment tactic. My point is that informing me would have been more effective because it would have prevented me from carrying the knife in the first place.

Yes, Mexico has the soverign authority to utilize whatever law enforcment tactics it chooses -- effective or otherwise (although I don't think the soverign sanctioned what these officers did). I have no right to tell the Mexicans how to police their country, but if I believe their law enforcment tactics put me at personal risk then I have every right to protect myself by staying out of Mexico, and therefore out of the reach of Mexico's soverign authority. I think we can both agree that where a foreigner disaproves of another country's law enforcment tactics that's his only real remedy.

Your comment about how "ignorance of the law is no excuse" raises an interesting point. I believe you are saying (again, correct me if I am misinterpreting you) that a foriegner who enters another country has the burden of familiarzing himself with the local laws before entering, and that this burden lies on the visitor rather than the local authorities. If that's what you are saying then I don't disagree, but I have a question: How should one go about doing that (learning Mexican law)?

To put it another way: based on previous posts, Burt, you seem to know a great deal about Mexican law (pocket knives, tinted windows, cell phones, etc.). How did you acquire your knowlege? Is there some authoritative source(s) somewhere that I can consult that would have told me about cell phones, pocket knives, and tinted windows? Concieding that the burden is on me, how do I (and other mongers) go about meeting the burden?

If I could place myself in a position similar to yours in terms of familiarity with Mexican law, I would probably feel more comfortable with the idea of returning to Mexico.

 

[Pompal 09.]

MikeDude...if you've read my post more closely you'd see that I've had more than one "encounter" with the cops in TJ. What I said was, if you've not broken the law then stand your ground. Because when the cops see you are serious they will cut you lose. That has been my experience, and that of other "TJ vets" that I know.

If I remember correctly, you broke the law by driving a vehicle with tinted window. Breaking the law (even a minor law) may result in problems anywhere in the world. (This is especially true in TJ if you are a gringo.) However, there is a major difference (in TJ) between a "shakedown" and buying your way out of trouble after breaking the law. This is one of the cultural differences most gringos don't understand.

I'm going to start a seperate thread about bribes and graft. Bribes and "clean graft" are indeed a part of life in Mexico. Most gringos, however, have no idea why it is acceptable nor do they understand the difference between "clean graft" and "dirty graft." So I'll try to explain in a seperate thread how bribes work in TJ.

 

[muzammil]

dreamss, I'm sure you will find volunteers to go to TJ when the time comes. If you are stuck going by yourself, I recommend using a taxi to take you to wherever you intend to go. As long as you don't walk down streets out of view from the public by yourself, you should be fine. When headed back to the border, make sure you tell the taxi to drop you by the entrance to the US border (exit from TJ). Some will try to drop you by the entrance from US to TJ.

 

[Gwillam]

...I'm over it! Burt, I ain't mad at chu'!

 

[^~Tobi~^]

Hi guys,You are quite scarrying the shit out of me with all these stories of corrupted cops etc..

I went only once some 10 years ago to TJ and had planned to return in January, since I will be in the San Diego area on business..
I am not ususally drunk, don't pee in the street, don't abuse anyone, don't fight, wear ordinary clothes , don't buy medicines, will not drive into mexico... But stilll, looks like you can still be in trouble?

I read all the good advice on this board,and one thing seems to be recommended, and that is not to go alone. If there are guys who regularly go, andplan to go in mid January, maybe we can at least get in and out together...

 

[gansta432]

Here's a thought.
Maybe this has been talked to death and we should get back to talking about some of the Little Brown Fucking Machines.
Just my dos centavos.
LBFM Luver

 

[PETER14]

Just because you have never had run-ins with Tj cops doesn't mean because you were smart or knew how to avoid them. You've been just lucky and when that luck runs out finally, all it takes is just one bad incident that will really screw your life up. It's like playing Russian Roulette. That one bullet is still in there waiting for its turn. Well, I may be painting too dark a picture here but what I am trying to say is that we have no control whatsoever over police corruption in TJ. Selective enforcement ? Don't drive in TJ ? Who are we kidding here ? These criminals can come up with thousands of reasons to stop you, search you and take you to god knows where. Even if you don't drive, I've read many posts here from guys who were walking and got shaken down. It does not matter as long as these fxxkers are in charge in TJ. Like I said, they view us as walking vault with cash and will prey on us as long as we go to TJ.
I do not believe that nothing short of boycotte will stop this infamy. Guys like us are probably singlehandedly supporting the economy of TJ. Think how much dollar is pouring into TJ each and every day. And this is the treatment we get ?
When you go to Vegas, the cops will rarely stop you to give you a ticket because they know that you are there to spend money contributing to the local economy. These low lives in Tj have no appreciation whatsoever.

By the way, I have reported the incident through the web link without having much faith in it.

 

[Soon to be Mrs. C]

Wrong.

Which is why I urge people to report corrupt cops. Sometimes it makes a difference!

 

[Pompal 09.]

...I have to say that I agree w/ MikeDude. I could see if you were defending other area's of Mexico (although still corrupt), such as Mexico City or the resort towns like Cabo & Puerta V.

But...this tirade you're on about Mexican authorities is in relation to one of the dirtiest, smelliest, cities in Mexico. IMHO, Tijauna is the left armpit (w/ no deodorant) of the world!!!

I have family members & friends from our neighbor to the south (Not TJ). Why would they leave the beautiful coastlines and the vast amounts of land & propety they posses to become American Citizens or Resident Aliens?

Answer: Police corruption! Of course, there are shady LE all over the world, but none so low as the "Mexicali's" in TJ.

I think the point has been established...you're not going back to Mexico or at least TJ for that matter any time soon...right?

It is funny how you banter on about being a "law-abiding" citizen when the very hobby we engage in is "illegal" in most regions of the world.

Let's put this baby to bed and move on to something juicy like... you fought your way out of being jumped by 10 homies or la policia waltzed into your hotel room mid-session etc...

 

[Selliah]

Somehow, using some twisted logic, Burt2020 keeps on insisting that there is no corruption in TJ and the cops are doing their job, even doing us favor by taking money instead of showing how nice TJ jails are and that all these posts about cop corruption stem from the fact that we do not understand the local customs, cultures, or whatever you want to call them. In a word, Bullshit.... Regardless of cultures or countries, if the cop takes(steals) money from you instead of upholding the law, that IS a corruption. This is not doing a favor. This act will encourage the general public to not take the law seriously because they can always get away with breaking the laws if you have enough money to bribe. Yes, I agree that it was not a wise thing to carry a knife into TJ, but the way the cops stole the money instead of taking him to the station to explain what specific laws he broke and pay possible fine was pure and simple corruption, if not a robbery. I suggest you look up the list of the world's most corrupted countries and you will find Mexico close to the top of the list. There is no denying there exists corruption in Mexico and more so in TJ.

 

[DemonBookLover]

In the US we say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." The same is true in Mexico. In the US intent is needed to commit many/most crimes. In Mexico and many other countries an act in and of itself is a crime. Their system is simpler and not as subject to manipulation by attorneys. (Which, perhaps, is their way of seeing there is equal justice for the rich and poor. Also, that justice is swift and sure.)


Do you really think they are responsible for informing everybody who crosses the border about their laws and customs? If they put up a sign about weapons as your post suggested, would you also expect them to tell you driving using a cell phone is illegal? Do you really think it possible to inform you about every law and custom that is different in Mexico? While we’re on the subject, I don’t remember seeing anything on our side of border informing Mexicans and Canadians of our laws and customs. Me thinks I smell a double standard here—and an unrealistic expectation.

Try putting things into perceptive. You broke the law and customs of a sovereign country. In essence you paid a “fine” that is less than you’d have paid for running a red light in San Diego. (Another act that endangers the public.) When all is said and done you broke the law, got caught, and were punished. Rather than see things in that light you’re upset because they have a different system. (You had to pay the cop directly instead of going to court, paying a fine, and having the cop paid from tax revenue.) Their system worked: a guy broke the law, got caught, and was punished. I fail to see the injustice; only the differences in systems.

 

[madel]

What you need to understand, though, is that I DIDN'T KNOW THAT A SWISS ARMY KNIFE WAS ILLEGAL. Although I agree completely with your point about the importance of following the law and customs of the place where I am visiting, one has to know what the law is first. It's not as if I was engaged in conduct that is malum in se everywhere (starting fights, peeing in the streets, etc.)

If the Mexican authorities wanted to prevent me from carying a Swiss Army Knife into their country, all they had to do was let me know SOMEHOW that it was frowned upon. They could change that big sign on the highway reading "Guns and Ammo are Illegal in Mexico" to "Guns, Ammo, and Knives are Illegal in Mexico." They could post a sign at customs: "Declare all pocket knives." They could inform the U.S. State Department so that a warning of some kind could be placed on the Consular Information Sheet for Mexico. Instead, what they were doing was like the town that reduces its speed limit on Main Street to 15MPH and writes tickets to out-of-town speeders, but never bothers to post a sign.

If posession of a pocket knife is illegal, why can I go to a shop in downtown Tijuana and buy one? If it is so important to Mexican authorities that I not carry a pocket knife, I would think they wouldn't let the local stores sell them to me. Note that I am talking about the STORES -- apparently legitimate businesses -- not the black market.

And again, my point remains. In the unlikely event that I return to Mexico, I will not bring a Swiss Army Knife, not out of fear of the police, but out of respect for the law. However, who knows what other obscure laws I might be breaking without having any way to know it? The only reliable way to ensure that I don't break any Mexican laws is to stay out of Mexico.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Yes, it is still corrupt, and we are not the clueless ugly Americans one poster loves to claim. Thefts from the cops are tips??? That is a good one!

 

[~*~AsHiEs~*~AuNt~*~]

...are you sure you're not a spy?? Damn, a keychain 'Swiss-Army' knife will get you time in the cage? Remind me to replace mine with a rabbit's foot next time! Shiiit...

J/K bro...good post!